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You all know QT by now. He (Zay Smith) writes a column in the Sun Times about this and that, and quite often talks about words or grammar. He often makes these loud proclamations...but never explains them. Here is what he tells us today: "most importantly," "secondly" (I agree about "firstly), "thirdly," are all wrong. You should say, "Most important, you should not...." You should also say "First, you should put on your coat; second you should put on your hat; and third you should put on your mittens"...never using "secondly" and "thirdly." While I see that his way is correct, I also think using the "ly" is correct. Am I wrong? By the way, he also says that an out of control car "careers" through the intersection, doesn't "careen," and this usage note validates that, though acknowledges that using "career" that may now sound pedantic. I hadn't known that. | ||
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Firstly is only about as wrong as more better. In the sentence above, what part of speech is firstly? | |||
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Okay. I did say that I agreed that "firstly" is wrong. Are "secondly," "thirdly," and "most importantly" wrong as well? As far as "career," I see that it comes from the French word "carriére," meaning racecourse and that it can mean to rush. Does anyone here ever use it that way? | |||
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Well, I don't agree firstly is "wrong." I think it is a beastly word and I don't like it, but it's not "wrong." Here's what the AHD says about firstly:
I know there are those of you who pooh-pooh the AHD and regard the OED as the "final authority." Here's what the OED Online says:
Notice that it is a very old word, dating to about 1532, though the writer of the 1847 quote called it a "pedantic neologism." The Mavens' Word of the Day by Random House has a good article about firstly. I won't quote the whole article, just a few sentences.
So I submit that, though the word is intensely disliked by some, it is not "wrong." More importantly is also an abominmation to my ears. Paul Brians, Department of English, Washington State University, condemns it outright:
My feeling is not that strong. I think it is again a matter of style and personal preference. Brians has a lengthy list of "Common Errors in English Usage." Here's what the The American Heritage Book of English Usage says:
So, pick whichever you prefer. If you don't agree with me, I won't consider you an ignorant clod. TinmanThis message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman, | |||
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My feeling is not that strong. I think it is again a matter of style and personal preference. I agree, Tinman, and I have really learned that here. I have learned not to be too picky, as long as the basics aren't forgotten (like the wrong use of an apostrophe). I have heard some people say, "First off," and I assume that's correct too. However, "first off"???? Where did that come from? | |||
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This is from the Chicago Manual of Style Questions and Answers Q. I have often disliked authors in the habit of introducing a statement with “Firstly” or “Secondly,” and so on. Are there any good rules on this or should it be banished from usage? A. Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary (which Chicago follows) seems just fine with “firstly,” and “secondly.” And according to this discussion at a Random House Web site , they are perfectly pedigreed adverbs. So I guess you’ll have to find another reason for disliking authors. Tinman | |||
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I see I'm repeating myself. Sorry. Tinman | |||
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Is not "first" an adjective or noun, whereas "firstly" is an adverb? Richard English | |||
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Is not "first" an adjective or noun, whereas "firstly" is an adverb? First is a noun, an adjective, and an adverb. Firstly is only an adverb. The latter came into use in the 16th century, while the former has been in use since at least the 11th century. | |||
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Good old QT...he always has the facts. Here is what he writes about popes: 58 popes have been non-Italians, including 15 Greeks, 15 Frenchmen, 6 Germans, and 1 Englishman. (I know, I wondered what happened to the rest, too!) The 46th pope those must have had a sense of humor...he was Pope Hilarius. | |||
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The only English Pope was Nicholas Breakspear who ruled from December 4, 1154 as Adrian IV. I do not know whether or not he was connected with the famous brewing family! Richard English | |||
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Have we forgotten Alexander Pope? (as pointed out by Dan Brown, whom Im ashamed to be quoting) | |||
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In today's QT: "Shuffle off this mortal coil" doesn't in fact mean to die, but it means to rid oneself of the constaints of one's physical existence, as you might "shuffle off your coat" on a warm day. I thought this phrase came from Hamlet and specifically means "to die." Am I nuts, or is QT? | |||
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But what is the difference between dying and ridding oneself of the constraints of one's physical existence? None that I can think of. Edit. I meant to write "existence" for the final word in the penultimate sentence. I have corrected my error.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Richard English, Richard English | |||
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It's both really. It using being rid of your mortal cares and worries a coy euphemistic way of saying die. Rather like saying "I want to use the little boys room" is a coy euphemistic way of saying I need to empty my bladder. "No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson. | |||
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