Wordcraft Home Page    Wordcraft Community Home Page    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Potpourri    It is not un-X.
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
It is not un-X. Login/Join
 
Member
Picture of zmježd
posted
If I understand what arnie, RE, and BobHale are saying in another thread, British English (and perhaps American English for all I know, but not my ideolect) allow for a construction that takes an adjective that is part of a binary opposition, and allows the speaker to create another newer and more intermediate meaning. For example,

1. I am happy.
2. I am not unhappy.
3. I am unhappy. / I am not happy.

happy ------ not unhappy ------ unhappy / sad
(1) ------------ (2) ------------- (3)

Do I have that right? Is (2) closer to (3) or to (1)?

Too bad we don't have

4. I am not *unsad.

The phenomenon seems more rhetorical to me, and in fact, is called litotes (i.e., understatement).


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
 
Posts: 5148 | Location: R'lyehReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
This reminds me of an urban legend, a quip I've heard attributed to Wolfgang Pauli, when he was an student, attending a lecture given by Einstein: "What Herr Einstein is saying is not entirely stupid."
 
Posts: 1242 | Location: San FranciscoReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Richard English
posted Hide Post
quote:
Do I have that right? Is (2) closer to (3) or to (1)?

I suspect that the "intensity" of 2 could vary according to context. Part of the beauty of the construction.

Before I started to use this board I had not realised how many subtle devices we use in UK English (I have spoken elsewhere about the use of the passive voice) that help us to use English creatively and to imbue our utterances with so many shades of meaning.

It has been said that the English make the best diplomats, and I suggest that this is not entirely unconnected with our habit of being significantly less than blatant when using our language.


Richard English
 
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UKReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of arnie
posted Hide Post
There is often a sense that can best described as "grudging" in the use of litotes in these constructions. "He didn't do badly" means he did quite well, with overtones of "He did quite well for an idiot".

Similarly there is a sense of slight surprise in "I am not unhappy"; the implicit meaning is "despite everything, I am not annoyed".

(edited to make sense)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: arnie,


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 10940 | Location: LondonReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Richard English
posted Hide Post
quote:
It has been said that the English make the best diplomats, and I suggest that this is not entirely unconnected with our habit of being significantly less than blatant when using our language.

Did this example of British humour fly unnoticed past the eyes of our foreign readers?


Richard English
 
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UKReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of shufitz
posted Hide Post
Did it? I had seen the irony in Mr. English claiming English to be diplomatic, but I'd presumed that that irony was unconscious, and was too diplomatic to mention it. Wink
 
Posts: 2666 | Location: Chicago, IL USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I just figured it was another manifestation of his "everything British is best" syndrome.

Tinman
 
Posts: 2878 | Location: Shoreline, WA, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of BobHale
posted Hide Post
But everything British is best. Especially our modesty. Smile


"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
 
Posts: 9421 | Location: EnglandReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Richard English
posted Hide Post
I hata having to explain a joke - or even humour - since this generally means that the comic effect just won't work.

Suffice it to say that the humour was in the style of the paragraph, not the content, as I am sure our British readers will have realised.


Richard English
 
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UKReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of BobHale
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Richard English:
I hata having to explain a joke - or even humour - since this generally means that the comic effect just won't work.

Suffice it to say that the humour was in the style of the paragraph, not the content, as I am sure our British readers will have realised.


Indeed. Your manifest circumlocution was, as always, a joy to the more discerning and particular linguaphile. However, some singular nuances are, perhaps, not always readily apparent to the casual observer.


"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
 
Posts: 9421 | Location: EnglandReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BobHale:
But everything British is best. Especially our modesty. Smile

I see Richard isn't the only one suffering from delusions of adequacy.

Tinman
 
Posts: 2878 | Location: Shoreline, WA, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
quote:
It has been said that the English make the best diplomats, and I suggest that this is not entirely unconnected with our habit of being significantly less than blatant when using our language.


This is a "singular nuance?" Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 24735 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Richard English
posted Hide Post
quote:
This is a "singular nuance?"

Very singular.


Richard English
 
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UKReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of arnie
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Richard English:
quote:
This is a "singular nuance?"

Very singular.


Almost unique, in fact. Wink


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 10940 | Location: LondonReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Oh, the irony of our British friends. Wink
 
Posts: 24735 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Wordcraft Home Page    Wordcraft Community Home Page    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Potpourri    It is not un-X.

Copyright © 2002-12