Those in the U.S. probably have read about this story of a man who, angry with the IRS, burned down his house and then flew a plane into an IRS building, killing himself and an IRS employee. It's surely too bad that people died as a result, but the IRS commonly messes things up so amazingly that...well...there was a little bit of understanding.

My daughter, who was told she owed the IRS money (a small amount) a number of times, even though she doesn't, finally decided to pay them and just forget fighting with them about it. The last time she tried to discuss this with them, she was put on hold for an hour and 15 minutes! Her experience is common; as you try to argue and point out their error to them, they just let it go on and on, charging you more and more penalties and interest until you give up and pay it. It kinda reminds me of this thread.

So...my daughter said, "Isn't there a German word that describes how I feel about this, Mom?" Oy vey. You can only imagine my answer.

It made the news in the UK as well, and I was surprised to learn that the IRS could be so inefficient as to provoke this kind of extreme reaction.

Things are rather different here since most people in the UK don't need to contact the tax authorities as they will be on Pay As You Earn (PAYE) which means their tax is deducted at source from their salaries, the amount depending on a special code that is allocated to everyone. The only contact most would have would be if they wanted to discuss their code.

For self-employed workers such as I things are different. We need to pay our income tax at the end of the tax year and we have to calculate it ourselves (or employ an accountant to do the job, as do I) - which I suppose is similar to the US system.

But when I have needed to speak to the tax authorities I have always found them to be easy to contact, helpful and fair. Last year I had a tax refund due and the default is that any overpayments are held to your credit. Since the amount was significant I decided I would prefer to have it refunded so I called, got through immediately, spoke to a very helpful Scot who had my details on the screen within seconds and, within a few minutes had agreed to send me the refund. In just a couple of days a cheque had arrived for the full amount, plus interest, and with a letter explaining just how the figure had been arrived at.

Others might have different experiences but I have always found the tax authorities to keep to their published code of standards, which code is available on the UK Government website and a summary of which is also sent with tax return forms.

there was a little bit of understanding

I think it was a heinous crime. There was some discussion of whether it was an act of terrorism. No doubt if the guy's name was Ahmed, there would have been no hesitation in determining if the label applied.

oy vey

You know there's a perfectly good English term you can use instead of this Yiddishism: oh dear or oh my.

Things are rather different here since most people in the UK don't need to contact the tax authorities as they will be on Pay As You Earn (PAYE) which means their tax is deducted at source from their salaries, the amount depending on a special code that is allocated to everyone.

If you are employee in the States, you have your estimated taxes deducted by your company based on a W2 form that you have to fill out, but self-employed and contractors often are on a 1099, and you then need to set aside money to pay your taxes, either quarterly or in a lump sum in April.

Let's face it. The guy was nuts. He set his house on fire after fighting with his wife. She, and his kids, only escaped being killed because a policeman investigating the disturbance saw the flames and got them out. I think he was just an irrational individual looking for some entity to take out his frustrations.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard English:



... plus interest ...

Interest? The IRS would never pay us interest.

I have a mind to delete this whole thread. Obviously it was taken the wrong way, and I apologize. Of course I had meant it to be in reference to our old friend, "Schadenfreude." Oh well.

quote:

I think it was a heinous crime.

While I clearly was too mild in my description, I did write the following before the comment z quoted about there being some understanding: "It's surely too bad that people died as a result..." Of course it was heinous and awful and horrible and of course he was crazy. I am sorry I was too cavalier about that.

As for "Oy vey?" Well, I suppose it's similar to "Schadenfreude," as well as other terms or phrases such as Americans saying "at university" or "feh." I am guilty as charged!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

quote:

Originally posted by tinman:

quote:

Originally posted by Richard English:



... plus interest ...

Interest? The IRS would never pay us interest.

If you owe them money then they charge you interest; if they owe you money then they pay you interest. Seems fair to me.

As for "Oy vey?" Well, I suppose it's similar to "Schadenfreude," as well as other terms or phrases such as Americans saying "at university" or "feh." I am guilty as charged!

I weas just kidding, K. Of course, you can use any word or construction you want to, but also of course it may make your intended meaning more obscure to your interlocutor. Of course, while I was alluding indirectly to your championing of the e-word, the parallels are probably slightly askew. Which is more common: schadenfreude or oy vey? How about oy vey or epicaricacy? The circles I run in, would all know schadenfreude and oy vey if I used them, as well as the more anemic oh my, but most of my friends would not know what I was on about if I used the e-word casually in conversation. The truth is I don't use schadenfreude very often. It is a rarely used word in my vocabulary, and the e-word is a hardly ever used, except when I am discussing words with you.

Here was another perspective on the IRS incident. I hadn't realized, until I read this article, that Conservatives, rather than Liberals, more often have this "IRS rage" (heaven knows I should have, given the difference in wealth between the two groups). Perhaps my post was linked with Rush and his minions. If so, while I hate to say it again...but there is no American word that says it as well...Oy vey! Apparently some are linking this to the "populist rage" or the tea party rallies we are seeing. To set the record straight, I am not one of them. I pay my fair share of taxes without complaint (well...maybe a tiny complaint?). However, I find the IRS bureaucracy to be one of the most difficult to communicate with. On the other hand, from my personal experience, AT&T has them beat, by a long shot.

Again, I regret my less than compassionate post about this. As Clarence Page points out in that link, quoting a reporter (he always keeps me balanced): "This isn't the IRS. These are our friends, our neighbors."

BTW, Oy vey may be one of those words from another language that is not quite fully translatable into English. It means more than these definitions I get from Onelook: "oh dear" or "oh woe," though I suppose the latter works the best. It has a tone to it that I can't quite capture with English.

Despite the "S" word's application to the IRS, the man who crashed into the IRS building was mentally ill. After all, he destroyed a perfectly good aeroplane and besmirched the reputation of all private pilots through his actions.

I've never had any dealings with the RRS but I've seen many horror stories about the relentless and single-minded way they go after the money they feel is due them. I recall the story about a man who had his house and property seized by IRS agents who burst in like SWAT. An unfortunate painter was upstairs doing a bedroom and became frightened by the commotion. He jumped out a second-floor window and broke his leg. Even though the painter had nothing to do with the property except as a tradesman, the IRS seized his truck and equipment, refusing to return it till he went to court and proved it was his and not the delinquent's.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard English:
Seems fair to me.

Fair? I don't think that word's in the IRS vocabulary. If you're late paying the IRS (but file on time), they charge you a penalty plus interest (see IRS link below). If you're late filing and paying, the penalty is much greater.

They deduct money from your paycheck all year long (It's called "withholding") and when you file you determine how much you owe. If the amount withheld exceeds the amount you owe, you get a refund of the difference, but no interest (see second link for exception). If you owe more than the amount withheld, you must pay them by April 15. If you're late penalties and interest begin accruing.

I have to make a disclaimer. I am not a tax attorney and I can't give tax advice. This IRS site describes late payment penalties and interest. This site says the IRS "may" pay you interest - "the IRS generally pays interest on refunds that have been delayed because of slow processing by the IRS." And this site provides an example.

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