In the OEDILF there has been some comment about "vulgar" words in Limericks and both CJ and exarp suggested that the running joke about Mrs Solcombe's "pussy" in the UK comedy "Are you being served" was smutty.

Although the double entendre is clear to we British, I doubt that many of the British viewers would have felt the humour to be even mildly coarse.

So I posted the following comment and would welcome the thoughts of those on this board.

"It may be a difference in US and UK humour but catch-phrases, such as those used in 'Are you being Served' are an important part of most British comedy shows.

"Mrs. Slocombe's 'pussy' and Mr Humphrey's camp comments are not especially clever but they are, to the fans of the show, funny.

"One of the most popular radio comedy shows of all time, ITMA, was jam-packed full of catch-phrases and, in the dark days of the war, people kept their spirits up by quoting them. Bomber pilots, when taking their turn to brave the flack before dropping their loads, would sometimes be heard to say, 'After you Cecil. No, after you Claude' - one of ITMA's catch-phrases.

"As I said, maybe it's different in the USA but we enjoy our catch-phrases."

So my question is twofold:

Firstly, are we, in the UK, more accepting of suggestive humour and, secondly, are catch-phrases more important in British comedu shows?

With regard to suggestive humour I think that we probably are more accepting - we're certainly exposed to more of it. Generally, and I'm talking about mainstream TV comedy here, I think British channels are willing to show things that would give most American networks pause for thought. It's not that I think Americans in general are especially prudish or even conservative in this area simply that I think the networks are so worried about offending the minority of their viewers who would be prone to object that adopt an extremely conservative attitude towards what they are willing to show.

As for catch phrase humour I'd have to say that when Richard says "we enjoy our catch-phrases" I'd like him to include me out. Not all of us think it's humourous to hear the same comments over and over and many of us find such shows to be devoid of either wit or charm.
This goes as much for the likes of supposedly alternative "The Fast Show" which consists almost entirely of catch phrases as it does for things like "Keeping Up Appearances" which is about as mainstream as it's possible to get.

First, Richard, thanks for bringing a post from the OEDILF site!

are we, in the UK, more accepting of suggestive humour

It's really hard for me to say since I have watched very little of British comedy. However, I surely think there are a lot of American shows with suggestive humor, and we seem to accept them well enough. Now, I do suspect there are more people here who complain about suggestive humor, but people often don't pay much attention to them, anyway.

running joke about Mrs Solcombe's "pussy" in the UK comedy "Are you being served" was smutty.

Okay, now I understand the question better. I hadn't heard of "Mrs. Solcombe" before, but CJ tells me that she is 68 years old, right? Well...then that does make a difference! I doubt that Americans would take to that kindly. While surely the double entendre would be clear to Americans, too...68 years old? I agree, a bit smutty.

I suppose that's ageism. You just can't win in the U.S.!

The running joke, if joke can be applied to something so weak, is that Mrs Slocombe is an elderly spinster who has a cat at home and who frequently uses the phrase "my pussy" or "my little pussy" to refer to her cat while being apparently innocent of the other meaning. The other characters are by and large complicit in the deception that they too are unaware of the meaning so that they do not upset her or hurt her feelings, while simultaneously giving one another meaningful glances (which she also fails to understand) when the catch phrase is used.

Personally I don't find it offensive but nor do I find it especially humourous. You do need the context however to appreciate why anyone would hold either view.

Quote "...The running joke, if joke can be applied to something so weak..."

It's not a belly laugh, that's for sure. But it's part of the expectation of the audience that this catch phrase (along with many others) will be used. It will create a titter in the audience - who would be sad were it not to appear.

It is an unfortunate reality that here in these United States, prudery abounds. Puritainism flourishes despite our best efforts to abolish it, as witness Attorney General John Asscroft's draping a bare-breasted statue of Justice for the sake of "modesty." As the UK and Europe become less prudish and less religious, many in the USA are becoming every bit as loony religious as those fanatics in the Middle East whom our fanatics so vociferously condemn.

As for catch phrases, say, "yada-yada" and most US of Americans will identify the sitcom, "Seinfeld." I, however, do not.

BTW, whatever became of the Britcom, "Waiting for God?" I thought it was great fun!

It is an unfortunate reality that here in these United States, prudery abounds. Puritainism flourishes despite our best efforts to abolish it

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Even in prime time on 'Friends' we see scenarios such as Monica pointing out all her 7 areas of sexual stimulation, just about having an orgasm herself while doing it. Yet, America's response to Janet Jackson's bare breast (don't click if you don't want to see it!) was ludicrous! The time spent on that tiny situation was time that could have been put toward world peace!

BTW, along the lines of this thread, my son asked today was "dry humor" is. How would you define it? Would you call British humor more 'dry' than American humor? I think I would.

Merriam-Webster has it as:

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dry: marked by matter-of-fact, ironic, or terse manner of expression

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I think of dry humour as humour not accompanied by the usual "laugh here" cues, where the observer is expected to understand the situation well enough that no cues are needed.

One can't speak for all Americans or all Brits, but in my experience dry humour is more likely to be recognised and enjoyed by Brits, and more likely to be missed or misunderstood by Americans.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Virge,

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
running joke about Mrs Solcombe's "pussy" in the UK comedy "Are you being served" was smutty.

Okay, now I understand the question better. I hadn't heard of "Mrs. Solcombe" before, but CJ tells me that she is 68 years old, right? Well...then that does make a difference! I doubt that Americans would take to that kindly. While surely the double entendre would be clear to Americans, too...68 years old? I agree, a bit smutty.

I suppose that's ageism. You just can't win in the U.S.!

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I don't understand why Mrs. Slocombe's age has anything to do with whether or not the joke is smutty. Would it be okay if she were 23? By the way, she is not 68 in the show. There was one episode in which she was about to have a birthday. The staff wanted to surprise her with a cake, but they didn't know how old she was. They kept hinting around to find out and determined she was 50, so that is the age they put on the cake. Mrs. Slocombe was incensed because she was only 48! (see #405 Fifty Years On). I don't think the jokes are smutty at all. Click here if you want to see some of them.

I liked the show. I thought it was funny, and it wasn't all sexual humor. It had a lot of humor based on class distinctions. For example, senior staff were allowed to wear a particular type of hat (I forget which type) while junior staff had to wear another type. (Remember the discussion under sumptuary?) It was corny and involved some slapstick, but it was funny. Here's what Wikipedia says about the show.

If you're interested, Kalleh, you can find videos of some of the episodes at the Chicago Public Library.

Tinman

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I'd say that a prime example of "dry humour" is The Office. It contains no one-liners or slapstick, and you are not told when to laugh by a baying studio audience. When it was first broadcast I switched over to watch it partway through, and thought for several moments that I was watching some boring documentary before I realised. You can't get much more dry than that!

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Originally posted by arnie:for several moments that I was watching some boring documentary before I realised. You can't get much more dry than that!

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I though the same for fifteen minutes until Gareth has his stapler put in jelly, and I was hooked.

Dry humour is wry sardonic or sarcastic. Vey occasionally, it is a term used for humour that isn't very funny. (Are you familiar with Victoria Wood or dinnerladies in America?)

Another word for a one-series-only sitcom that isn't funny is a comedy-drama.

Would it be okay if she were 23?
More okay, though a 23-year-old is going to get it, so it wouldn't be as funny.

Now, to be honest, it does sound rather funny to me. I was just saying that much of America would probably see it as a little smutty.

That is exactly how I explained dry humor to my son, "more sarcastic," "sometimes even cynical," "perhaps 'ironic,' at least by UK standards," and "subtle." Thanks, Tinman, maybe I will rent the videos.

Are you familiar with Victoria Wood or dinnerladies in America?)

No, but then I seem to be more clueless when it comes to humor from the UK than most others here.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
Thanks, Tinman, maybe I will rent the videos.

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It's cheaper to check them out of the library.

Tinman

Richard English: "It will create a titter in the audience"

Really?

The late (extremely camp) comedian Frankie Howerd had as one of his catch phrases "Titter ye not!"

Catch phrase

I think catch phrases are rather well known on both sides of the Atlantic as a humorous device. In free association mode, I always think of catchwords or guidewords. The former are the words printed in old books at the bottom righthand side of a page which contains a word or two that begins the next page, so if you are reading aloud from the book, you can read the catchword while turning the page. And the later, are the words at the top of pages in a dictionary that indicate the first and last words contained on the open pages in front of the reader. (Also used in phone books with names.)

Some American catch phrases: shoo-fly, 23 skidoo, where's the beef?, not!, I can't believe I ate the whole thing, in like Flynn, I made him an offer he couldn't refuse, etc.

Some more: "Come on down;" "Good Grief!" "Great Scott!" "I get no respect;" Oh...My...God!" "What's up Doc?" "Yabba Dabba Do!" "And away we go!" "Beam me up, Scotty!" "Good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are!" "Holy Cow!"

Most of these aren't really what we'd think of as catch phrases in England. They are certainly phrases that have moved from their original area of use (Star Trek for example) into common parlance (although of course "Beam me up Scotty never actually appeared in the show) but to us a catch phrase is something that is associated specifically with a particular performer - usually, but not always, a comedian - and which is in the public mind always linked with that performer. So in RE's example you would be very unlikely to hear anyone say "titter ye not" except in an intentional imitation of Frankie Howard.
On the other hand "Yabba Dabba Doo" and "What's Up, Doc?" would certainly qualify.

Most of these aren't really what we'd think of as catch phrases in England.

Must be one of those trans-Atlantic differences that unites the UK and the USA.

"A phrase in wide or popular use, especially one serving as a slogan for a group or movement." A-H

"an expression that has caught on and is used repeatedly" M-W

These American difinitions pretty much sum up how I think of catchphrases. I sure somebody with the OED online can post its definition(s).

One of my favorites is when W C Fields and Mae West (American comedians from the first half of the last century) trade personal catchphrases at the end of My Little Chickadee. He: "You must come up and see me sometime," and she: "Ah, yes."

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I found those on the Internet under "catch phrases."

This isn't the OED, but I did find this discussion of catch phrases.

How about: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!" and "Here's looking at you, kid."

Interesting. And not a single one from ITMA! Maybe the show never reached the USA.

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And not a single one from ITMA!

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Yes, that is a shame. The earliest ones listed that I recognised came from The Goon Show and Round the Horne. Alas, those who remember ITMA are declining in numbers. The other day I looked into my boss's office and asked "Can I do you now, Sir?" and he looked at me as if I'd taken leave of my senses. I suppose I had really, since he is far too young to know anything of ITMA.