Member |
After the most recent war between RE and CJ - this one concerning whether or not poetry requires capital letters at the start of lines I had a quick skim through some of my poetry books. English Verse (ed. Edward Leeson) contains a comprehensive survey of verse from Chaucer to Ted Hughes. In the whole book, though I admit to just flicking through the pages, I only spotted two poems which did not use initial capitals - Bavarian Gentians by D.H. Lawrence and Simplify Me When I'm Dead byKeith Douglas. The Penguin Book of Contemporary British Poetry (ed. Blake Morrison and Andrew Motion) has more examples which amount to perhaps ten percent of the poems in it. The Works, which is an educational resource for Literacy in Schools, is by it's nature mainly poems suitable for childre but does feature quite a few well know classics, has maybe one percent without initial caps. I'd say therefore that on this one the weight of tradition comes down firmly on CJ's side - which was my gut feeling all along - although there is a trend among modern poets away from this form. Well, well, who would have thought of Richard as a modernist? P.S. As regards the original disagreement can I just remind the combatants that the Liliputians went to war over which end of a boiled egg to crack open. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum Read all about my travels around the world here. | ||
|
Member |
Tut tut! Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
quote: And here I was believing that we had this agreement about typos. If you want to play with gloves off just say the word. Believe me that I don't want a flame war but if we ever have one I sincerely doubt that I'll be the most burnt. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum Read all about my travels around the world here. [This message was edited by BobHale on Sun Feb 9th, 2003 at 9:48.] | |||
|
| Member |
distraction tactics are the province of street corner conjurers, charlatans and politicians. Don't attack the arguer, attack the arguement. I notice that you fail to defend against the charge. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
|
Member |
I have to agree, Bob. On this debate I have been on the side of CJ. In my poetry books, as well, usually the first lines are capitalized. Of course there are exceptions, e.g. e.e. cummings, but they are exceptions, rather than the rule, correct, Richard? If you really don't think so, to what published poems are you referring? | |||
|
Member |
In defense of Richard, I quote Bob's own favorite non-Carrollian quotation: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." (I'm not sure how that's relevant, but it does somehow seem on point, doesn't it?  ) | |||
|
Member |
quote: That's twice now that this quotation has been hauled into this discussion which brings up yet another pet peeve - the misuse of this quotation. Most misusers screw it up by saying "Constistency is the etc etc" which is totally a misreading and so incorrect that the misqoter deserves to be slapped on the scene. Next time this comes up, go ahead. You have my permission. But a secondary misuse is to see something as a foolish consistency when it really isn't. We always spell "foolish" with a double O and never with a U, right? Consistency, yes, but not foolish at all. The capitalization of each first word of a line of poetry is both traditional and, to me anyway, pleasing to the eye. It doesn't need to be a rule although I think it is. On the limerick thread it is but that's only because I'm King there. And, as a sidenote, may I say that I am mildly tickled that R.E. is finally catching some well-deserved hell, both in this thread and elsewhere, from posters other than my illustrious self. Possibly it's because some of us are drinking more beer lately and find ourselves in feistier moods. | |||
|
| Member |
Typos yes. But I'd call that a spelling mistake... So far as the "charge" is concerned I didn't answer it as it seemed to add little to the debate. Examples aplenty we can all find; rules only I have so far submitted. As and when somebody can find me a rule from a respected source that says that the initial letters of every line of a poem MUST always be capitalised then I will adhere to it. I suspect it is a matter of preference and style and one of the references I have found suggests that the use of lower-case is a modern style - as has already been suggested. And, on the subject of flaming let me say, "Don't bother". I am not fireproof but I can, and will, run away from a fire. Discussion and debate - even heated - I enjoy. Any exchange of insults and I will be found to be one who does not trade! Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
quote:Ah--okay, now I see what you are saying. I agree that captializing the first lines of poems isn't a must as certainly there are examples of excellent poems that don't. It is, however, a matter of preference, I do believe, for most poets. For example, my poetry bible is Burton E. Stevenson's "The Home Book of Verse". It has 4,009 pages of verses from the U.S. and the U.K. between the years of 1580 - 1918. For poetry-lovers I highly recommend it; it can be found at used book stores. Anyway, I went through that book last night at about 100 pages at a time and every poem had the first line capitalized. Now, I agree, it is old, and poetry has changed somewhat. However, it certainly shows the tradition. Now, if we want to talk logic, I think it is perfectly logical not to capitalize the first line of a verse. After all, words are not capitalized at the beginning of lines of prose. quote:Fair enough. That is exactly why I like this site because there are administrators to keep things sane. I also hope that no one will resort to insults | |||
|
| Member |
quote: I typed the "offending" sentence, indeed the offending article, very quickly and without proof reading it because I was in a hurry to get to the pub for my regular Sunday lunch time session with a couple of old friends. Sometimes my fingers type faster than my brain spells. If I proof read I (sometimes) pick it up, if I don't proof read then it slips by. In this case I typed one word meaning another word. It happens. The next time it happens to anyone on the board, because I still respect the idea of not pouncing on typos, be assured I shall certainly not mention it. That way I'll get to feel all smug and superior. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
|
| Member |
quote: Like a King. I know how you feel. | |||
|
| Member |
Well, maybe this is a woman vs. man reaction--but, unless the mistake is an obvious spelling error or something quite minor, I prefer to be corrected. I hate the thought of broadcasting inaccuracies--and, worse, that someone is thinking, "Oh isn't she stupid for not knowing that". You can always private topic the person so that he/she can make the correction. For example, Shufitz, thankfully, corrected me in the limerick thread that the "flea and fly in the flue" poem did not come from Odgen Nash. I appreciated that. He privately alerted me that my favorite limerick about the "linkside" detective is really about a "lynx-eyed" detective. I had never seen the limerick written so I missed that, and I have duly corrected it. So, I do welcome polite corrections. | |||
|
Member |
I tend to agree with Kalleh: I would prefer to be corrected, provided it were done politely. What I do hate are sarcastic comments about an obvious typo. It can pay off sometimes, too. A friend told me about some software he downloaded to try out. He noticed an error of fact on the software author's Web site and politely wrote to point it out. The author sent him the registration key for the software for free (normally $50 IIRC) as thanks! | |||
|
| Member |
I, also, would like to be notified of any substantial errors in my postings. I try to proofread all my entries and check to verify that my links work. They don't always, and if someone tells me I can go back and correct them. Feel free to correct me on the board. It is not necessary to resort to a private topic. When Wordnerd corrected me recently via private topic about an error in a mathematical formula I posted, I was able to go back and correct it. I feel sure he contacted me by private topic to spare me any embarrassment, but that is not necessary. I welcome criticism and if it's embarassing, I'll get over it. I think Bob was referring to petty nitpicking, though, which is another matter. That can be very childish and tedious. Tinman Tinman | |||
|
Copyright © 2002-12