I admit it; I'm a literalist. I think that's why I have so much trouble with that "AEIOU" thread. I don't always think of the subtleties.
Example: A friend was going to China to meet her husband's parents. She had to go to a formal tea, and she said to me, "Since I am the daughter-in-law, I will have to pour tea on my knees". My response? "Won't that burn you?" Well, needless to say, the room went up in laughter, and once again Kalleh was made to feel like a fool!
How about the rest of you? Any literalists among us?
Simply to be awkward I ferquently treat teenage slang expressions literally.
The current favourite, "cool" (meaning good or impressive) I particularly dislike believing that the portfolio use of such expressions impoverishes the language.
So, when I hear soemone say "cool" where a more appropriate descriptor could be used, I will frequentlu treat the word literally.
For example, "..."Let's go down to the cinema".
"Cool".
Well, you'd better wear a coat then"
The puzzled expression is sometimes eventually replaced by a mildly embarrassed one - sometimes by a scornful one!
Richard English
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UK
Well, for a long time now I’ve been aware That like I’m alright but like the world is square. So I’ll tell all you people you can take my tip It does not pay to be too hip. . . . I said, “I wanna make it”. She said, “Make what?” I said, “A scene.” I said, “I want to make a scene!” She said, “Shakespeare, Clifford Odetts, Arthur Miller or Pirandello?” I said, “Forget it”.
I, too, find I am a very literal person. I take things too seriously, especially when I meet someone new and before I get to know their sense of humor.
I manage volunteers, and I recall this one gentleman whom I trained about two years ago. He came back from his first route and made a comment about how tough it was to do the job. I hadn't prepared him well enough he said. Then he left with not another word said.
About a week later, he walked in out of the blue, wanting to know why I never called him to work again. I told him I thought it was too difficult and didn't want to push him, trying to spare both our feelings. He burst out laughing and said that he wished all the jobs he had been given in life were that "hard". Now he works for me four or five days a week and still snickers about how I misunderstood him that first time.
Posts: 1412 | Location: Buffalo, NY, United States
The Amelia Bedelia children's books are some of my favorites because she, like me, takes everything so literally. We've talked about the 2 meanings of dust in another thread. This link shows how Amelia Bedelia dusts!
Ah, another example of being a literalist appeared in the Sunday comics today ("Cathy"). While the mom and daughter went round and round as to what the invitation meant that said "no gifts" ("does it mean only handmade gifts?"; "only thoughtful gestures?"; "What counts as a thoughtful gesture?"; "Shall we call someone and ask?"; etc.), the dad expressed my sentiments precisely, "Maybe 'no gifts' means 'no gifts'!" Twice, within a month, I was invited to parties (different people at each) where the invitation said "no gifts". One of the invitations was for a 40th birthday party celebration and specified to "bring a funny story rather than a gift"--which I did. Lo and behold, everyone (except me) also brought gifts, and the honoree opened them up one at a time.
I thought this was an aberration, so when I was invited to the next party that said no gifts, once again I complied. Once again I was the only soul without a gift. Am I clueless?
I probably wouldn't have brought a gift in those circumstances, either. If they state "no gifts", I'll take them at face value and bring "no gifts"! It's not my fault if they don't mean what they say.
There are times that I wish more people were literalists. How many of us have had parties where we list who is invited , only to have someone call and ask if someone else can come with, or if their children are invited, as well? Or you put RSVP by such and such a date, and you still end up wondering who is coming?
Posts: 1412 | Location: Buffalo, NY, United States
If I go to a party giftless after first being advised "no gifts" and then discover that everyone else ignored this direction, not only do I not feel bad about not bringing a gift but, when I leave, I take one of the gifts that some other knothead brought.
Each of these parties was for women--no men. I wonder if it is a man/woman thing. In fact, that was the whole point of the comic that prompted my post. Men are a bit more straighforward, I think.
According to author Allan Pease (Why men don't listen and momen can't read maps), the way in which men and women use language is sometimes so different that they might come from different planets.
For example, if a woman were to say to her husband, "Which of these pairs of shoes do you prefer?" and he were to answer, quite logically, The red ones", then her response would probably be, "Well, what's wrong with the blue ones?"
Men, of course, will not understand this strange response and will take refuge behind the newspaper and mutter something like, "Well, you suit yourself then" and thus the evening gets of to a bad start.
The point being, of course, that the question was not seeking advice, but confirmation.
The correct answer would be, "Darling, you look lovely in either pair!"
Mind you, it's taken me nearly forty years of marriage to work this out (and the help of Allan Pease's lecture).
Richard English
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UK
Oh, that makes so much sense! No wonder I got a doormat for Chrismas (posted in an earlier thread). My husband had asked what I wanted, and I had said a "doormat"--not thinking he'd ever actually get it!
My wife asked me for a bag of compost, so I got her one. However, as I am a graduate from the advanced course in women-speak, I got her several pointless, trivial and quite impractical items as well - with which she was delighted.
Men, of course, are easy to please. When a man say he wants something useful, just buy him a bottle of whisky and he'll have no trouble in using it!
Richard English
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UK
quote:I got her several pointless, trivial and quite impractical items as well
All I can say is that the so-called "trivial" items must have been really wonderful (at least to a woman)--if she accepted the bag of compost as a gift. I have to say, that surpasses my husband's doormat gift!
You know, silly things like bits of jewellery, ornaments, flowers, perfume. All the kinds of things that men have discovered mean a lot to women - even though they still scratch their heads wondering why she wouldn't prefer something useful like a new vacuum cleaner or a set of spanners.
Richard English
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UK
I knew it! You gave her a diamond necklace & Channel Coco--or something similar. I have to say, I went around all day yesterday laughing hysterically about the prospect of receiving a bag of compost (AKA "manure" here). I wondered how one would wrap it. However, I am sure you more than made it up with the jewelry and perfume. Your wife probably thinks you're very cute for being so practical.
As far as words, we do use "tap", "shop", and we have heard of "lift", "lorry". However, I have never heard of those uses of "boot" or "queue".
I am reading a Robert Burns poem now, and it is amazing how many of his words that I have never heard of! For example: "bickering brattle" meaning "hurrying scamper" "pattle" meaning "plough-staff" "a daimen icker in a thrave", meaning "an occasional ear of corn in 24 sheaves" "lave" meaning "remainder" "big" meaning "build" "foggage" meaning "meadow grass" "snell" meaning "biting" "thole" meaning endure or suffer" And those are only a few!
[This message was edited by Kalleh on Thu Jan 2nd, 2003 at 9:22.]
Of course, Robbie Burns, being a Scot, used many of the old Gaelic words which would have been unknown in England, even in his day. This might also explain why his works, although very important, did not have quite the same worldwide influence as did Shakespeare's. Mind you, the fact that he died at an early age would also have worked against him.
By the way, it's Burns Night on January 25 when all true Scots will be eating Haggis and drinking Malt Whisky.
I have a compost heap out behind the back garage. We compost all lawn clippings, small sticks, and vegetable scraps from the kitchen. You need the right combination of green and brown to make the best compost and let the sun and air do their thing. Every year I end up with the nicest black soil for topping my beds.
Isn't this practiced in England, or don't you have the right conditions to make your own compost?
Posts: 1412 | Location: Buffalo, NY, United States
quote: As we understand both lorry and truck; tap and faucet; shop and store; queue and line; lift and elevator; boot and trunk.
Now, I have to say, I would not know lorry or boot in these senses, but the rest are familiar to me.
As a matter of fact, I was watching a movie the other day where someone was trying to pretend to be American, but used the word "lift" when he stepped into the elevator and was immediately known to be an imposter!
One more point, in my younger days I owned a shoe repair shoppe. Is it ever spelled that way in England?
Posts: 1412 | Location: Buffalo, NY, United States
As I said in my posting, most gardens in England have compost heaps.
The challenge is, of course, to get the temperature right. The process of decay will generate heat and this must be sufficient to allow the chemical action to convert the vegetable material into compost, otherwise it will simply remain vegeable material.
Too much heat, though, can kill the worms in the heap or even set it alight! A difficult task to get it just right although it is possible to exercise a degree of control by adjusting gthe size of the heap - the larger, the hotter.
Richard English
Posts: 8038 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UK
quote: I owned a shoe repair shoppe. Is it ever spelled that way in England?
Only if someone is trying for an 'olde-worlde' impression, as in _Ye Olde Gifte Shoppe_.
Most people will wince if they see it spelt that way.
There are two problems with "ye Olde Gifte Shoppe", which as arnie says is only used by people trying to sound "olde-worlde". The first is that pernicious letter "e". This is trying to look like Old English but in fact is a borrowing from a much later period of English when the late medieval French influence came into the language. The words that commonly have this "e" added were never spelled that way in English although others sometimes were. It must be remembered however that fixed spellings are a relatively modern invention. (Even in Shakespeare's day the man didn't manage to spell his own name the same way on any two of the authenticated signatures.)
The other problem is the word "Ye", invariably pronounced as if that first letter were a "Y". It isn't. The word "the" has NEVER been spelled with a "Y". It was however in Old English spelled with a letter that no longer exists and therfore isn't on my keyboard - the letter called thorn. This letter was an Old English way of writing the characters "th" as a single character based on the earlier runic script and was pronounced in the same way as the modern articulated "th" of "the" (as opposed to the unarticulated "th" of "thin"). When thorn - along with several others fell out of use it was generally replaced by "th". I'm not sure when the corrupted form of "Ye" started to be used by people trying and failing to lend an old fashioned gravitas to their enterprises. Personally I always like to suspect the Victorians in these matters. Whenever it was it arose from a misreading and mistranscription of the Old English.
Thanks so much for the wonderful link to Burns's vocabulary. I didn't think to check the internet! There were several terms that the book's editor didn't define. Actually, I was thinking this was an example of cockney rhyming, but I guess not.
Wow, this thread was one of the first ones I started. And, yet, I still consider myself a literalist, even though sometimes it gets me into trouble. Just today I read this about literalists in the Chicago Tribune:
quote:
Fundamentalism is fundamentalism wherever it breeds, always the same dark stain of unbending literalism, always the same shrill claim that it guards the one true path to enlightenment, always the same crazed insistence that the one unforgivable crime against faith, the one inexcusable heresy of ideology, is to ask questions.
For the record, my literalism isn't all that unbending.
