The thread about being a mutt is now locked. However, in today's Chicago Tribune there was evidently a public outcry because a local school official called people in his community "mutts". The outcry accused him, an African-American, of using a "racial slur". Racial slur? Slang, perhaps, but not a slur, right?

Then, in the same paper, there was another outcry because of a sign posted near Chicago's new football stadium, saying "Let's Roll", announcing the Bear's first home game in rennovated Soldier Field. Once again, there was a major outcry. People resented the use of that term because of the passenger on the September 11 th flight who was quoted as saying, "Let's roll!"

Sheeesh! How do we even know what to say now? While "let's roll" has never been in my vocabulary, had it been, I would never have thought it wrong to say.

I suspect the language will become significantly impoverished if we are not allowed to use words or phrases simply because they were the last ones uttered by somebody just before death. Many are the "last words" that have ensured a posthumous reputation!

And mutt, of course, simply means a mongrel. It is racist only insofar as it implies that that a person is of mixed race - but then, who isn't?

Richard English

And here all along I thought "mutt" applied only to canines. Whatever was I thinking?

*Oh yes, and comic strip characters too, sometimes.

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Are we too sensitive? Or am I an insensitive slob?

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It doesn't have to be one or the other. That's the kind of bipolar thinking that always seems to end in a war somewhere. It's perfectly possible for both or neither to be true with a thousand shades in between.
I believe that before we accuse someone of making a racial slur or of using an offensive or inappropriate phrase there are lots of factors to consider - an important one being intent.

Some words have such negative conotations (for example "nigger") that it's almost impossible to conceive of a situation where they might be used without a bad intent and the word "mutt" is creeping towards that as there would certainly seem to be little reason for using other than as an insult but it isn't a specifically racist insult any more than saying someone is a pig would be racist.

As for the "let's roll" half of the post it's sad but true that there is a significant number of people who will inevitably find something to complain about. We pander to them at our peril. The movie Spiderman was reshot to remove previously filmed footage that included the twin towers. If there is a fire on a day when TV is due to screen The Towering Inferno it gets pulled from the schedule to avoid offending people.
The rumours that people were offended by the title of Lord of the Rings : The Two Towers in spite of it being the title of the book turned out to be trackable to an internet spoof but were nevertheless believable enough that some people took them seriously.

This is the kind of thinking that leads to represive censorship. It isn't sensitivity it's a misguided and misplaced sense of empathy and guilt and we should all do everything in our power to resist it.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

Hear, hear!

I was once accused of being a "tree-hugging liberal" (which is, I understand, a term of significant insult in the USA). This came about simply because I was not prepared to state my support for the war in Iraq, the accuser's thinking being that, if I was not prepared to say I was "for it" then I must be "against it".

The irony of the fact that a liberal could take precisely an opposite view of the situation (in other words, if I were not prepared to state that I was against the war, then I must be "for it" and a warmonger) was quite lost on him.

My position then, as now, was that I choose not to share my views on the subject - and that should really make me nothing other than "private"!

Richard English

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It doesn't have to be one or the other. That's the kind of bipolar thinking that always seems to end in a war somewhere

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My, my, we are a bit feisty today (or yesterday?), aren't we? Sorry, Bob. It was definitely a poor choice of words for the subject as you so eloquently pointed out!

While I agree with much of what you have said, I don't think that mutt, at least here in the U.S., has taken on any negative connotation--yet anyway--when describing people of mixed ethnicities. However, I absolutely may be wrong, especially since haberdasher has evidently never heard it used that way.

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I was once accused of being a "tree-hugging liberal" (which is, I understand, a term of significant insult in the USA).

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While, as they say in research, I am only an N of 1, I have always thought "tree-hugging" liberal to be a signicant compliment, though we are more likely to say bleeding-heart liberal.

"...I don't think that mutt, at least here in the U.S., has taken on any negative connotation--yet anyway--when describing people of mixed ethnicities. However, I absolutely may be wrong, especially since haberdasher has evidently never heard it used that way"

I'm not sure that's a "however." Not that I've heard all the extant racial slurs by a long shot, but I would think my lack of exposure to that usage reinforces your point rather than attenuating it.

I think we are quite lucky in the UK as we rarely get this type of srgument. Is it the left that cause the outcry over such words?

That's a good question, Graham. I would guess in the case of "Let's roll!" it would be those on the right, while in the case of "mutt" it would be those on the left. However (I hope you agree with that "however", haberdasher!), I have been known to be wrong, both on this board and at home! Just ask Shufitz!

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
My, my, we are a bit feisty today (or yesterday?), aren't we? Sorry, Bob. It was definitely a poor choice of words for the subject as you so eloquently pointed out!

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Not really. You just caught a couple of subjects I feel strongly about.

To answer the intent rather than the wording of the question - no I don't think that you are an insensitive slob. I think that politically correct knee-jerk reactions don't just undermine the language they demean the very people they are claiming to protect. The use of slurs and insults be they racial or otherwise (fatty, four-eyes, geek - whatever) is something I definitely don't approve of. All the same if I were (to use a PC term) of Afro-Carribean extraction I would find it extremely insulting to have someone suggest that I would get offended by the use of the word "blackboard" or the the term "black ice". I would find specious origins like the one that led to the famous "nitty-gritty" debate offensive not because of the inaccurate content but because of the readiness of people to believe I could be stupid enough to be offended by it.

The good news is that I also don't think "we" by which I presume you mean society in general are too sensitive. I believe that there are a small but vocal minority that are too sensitive and I believe that are are others who far from being sensitive will in pursuit of their own agendas pretend an outrage they don't genuinely feel - this can be from pure malice or from something they hope to gain but either way they are cynically exploiting the power of words to cause trouble.
In general though I thnk most people are capable of distinguishing between the genuinely offensive and the, often ludicrous, excesses of the PC brigade, sincer or otherwise.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

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That's the kind of bipolar thinking that always seems to end in a war somewhere.

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Well, Bob, I couldn't help but read your comment, and then read Tinman's joke about George W. Bush having "no middle ground", and then thinking, "are George and I two peas in a pod?" For the record, George is on one end of the continuum.....and I am farrrrr the other way!

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Originally posted by BobHale:
Some words have such negative conotations (for example "nigger") that it's almost impossible to conceive of a situation where they might be used without a bad intent

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I doubt a majority of Wordcrafter regulars are huge Spike Lee fans but, in regards to the use of the word "nigger," I sincerely and very enthusiastically recommend the movie "Bamboozled" to one and all.

A (very) brief overview: Just as the movie "The Producers" featured an intentionally offensive play entitled "Springtime for Hitler," so too does "Bamboozled" revolve around a most politically INcorrect TV show, a little something called "Mantan's 21st Century Minstrel Show," which offers up pretty mush every black stereotype (Aunt Jemimah, Little Black Sambo [who, yes I know, was Indian in the original] Topsy, etc etc) in a "Carol Burnett" type variety show performed by tap-dancing African-Americans in, of all things, blackface.

Among the many very valid points, in my opinion, that Spike Lee drives home with this film is how cattle-like the public can be in their mindless following of insipid trends, in this case the identification with the term "nigger."

Well worth your buck or pound or quid & ha'penny or whatever at your local video store.

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Originally posted by Richard English:
I was once accused of being a "tree-hugging liberal" (which is, I understand, a term of significant insult in the USA).

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A "tree-hugger" (or "tree-hugging liberal") is an
environmentalist.

Whether or not it's an insult depends on your point of view.

Tinman

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Originally posted by tinman:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Richard English:
A tree hugger(or "tree-hugging liberal") is an
environmentalist.

Whether or not it's an insult depends on your point of view.

Tinman

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There wasa very good article in the Guardian recently about the way that sales of SUVs have rocketed in America (and I believe from a news item yesterday that's it's also happening here now). Between them SUVs and Hummers apparently now account for a third of new cars sold in America. They drink petrol and contribute significantly to global warming.

I'll let you read the article but I was particularly impressed with the logic and clear thinking of evangelist Jarry Falwell who is quoted as saying that global warming does not exist because "God would not let that happen".


It seems that to a good proportion of Americans "tree hugging liberals" are traitors or satanists bent on destroying America.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

We have become used to the climate we now enjoy and, probably for the first time in the history of the world, are aware that it is changing. As a race we are more knowlegeable than we have ever been before and are rightly worried about changes to our environment.

One thing that is less well-known than perhaps is should be is that the earth is presently a very chilly place by comparison with how it used to be. Even just a few thousand years ago the earth was warmer than it is today and, during the time of the dinasours, it was about ten degrees Celsius warmer on average than it is now.

Global warming is certainly a threat to the status quo, but that doesn't mean it's a threat to the world's survival.

Richard English

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Originally posted by Richard English:
We have become used to the climate we now enjoy and, probably for the first time in the history of the world, are aware that it is changing. As a race we are more knowlegeable than we have ever been before and are rightly worried about changes to our environment.

One thing that is less well-known than perhaps is should be is that the earth is presently a very chilly place by comparison with how it used to be. Even just a few thousand years ago the earth was warmer than it is today and, during the time of the dinasours, it was about ten degrees Celsius warmer on average than it is now.

Global warming is certainly a threat to the status quo, but that doesn't mean it's a threat to the world's survival.

Richard English

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Isn't there some quote about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing?

No, there isn't.

Richard English

[This message was edited by Richard English on Wed Apr 30th, 2003 at 9:41.]

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Originally posted by Richard English:
No, there isn't.

Richard English

[This message was edited by Richard English on Wed Apr 30th, 2003 at 9:41.]

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Quite true Richard. However there is

"A little learning is a dang'rous thing
Drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring"

Actually when I made my post about SUVs I also made a little wager with myself about which owner of a prestige motor car would be the first to defend the "gas-guzzlers".

Suffice it to say that I was right.

Just call me a tree hugging liberal who would quite like the idea that there will long remain trees for me to hug.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

Great link Jerry. There went another hour of my day...

Oh, Jerry, that's great. How about posting it in our Links for Linguaphiles?

No sooner said than done!