Here's an interesting article by Geoff Nunberg on the history and politics of prescriptivism (or language criticism, as he calls it).

He seems to have left out some words, so I'm utterly confused by this material. Also, why the insertion of the Morse code letter, "F" at the end of this sentence? "Do you understand what this great Statesman means? . .—." (..-. means "F.") Odd!

It was an interesting read, goofy. Thank you!

I hadn't associated prescriptivism/descriptivism with conservativism/liberalism, but I see the point.

quote:

"Do you understand what this great Statesman means? . .—." (..-. means "F.") Odd!

He has a dash at the beginning of the sentence. Apparently he meant to end with another dash following an ellipsis and mistyped.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff:
"Do you understand what this great Statesman means? . .—."

This quote is from Cobbett's Grammar of the English Language, written in the early 1800s. They were fond of excessive punctuation back then.

Interesting view on prescriptivism vs descriptivism. I'd say it affects more than these two words. When I argue with somebody about language, we usually do not have a common vocabulary to work with. (As in most political arguments.) Grammar to most to most normative grammarians has a completely different meaning than it does for me.

I don't think that the tags conservative and liberal do much better in this argument. Every linguist I have ever met or read tends to use standard language when talking or writing. Although, in speaking some use a regional dialect (more of an accent in American English).

It's one thing to suggest (or order) that nobody should use the passive voice in sentences when writing, but it's an entirely different matter when those same people cannot tell the difference between a verb in the passive voice and a hole in the ground. Or take the rage over a word like decimate and its supposed meaning via its Latin etymology.

I think we should separate language enthusiasts into the kvellers and the kvetchers, i.e. those who are proud of the language and enjoy its states, current and past, and those who bitch that the language is going to hell in a handbasket.

[Edited to fix formatting.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

I so agree with you, z. The kvellers and kvetchers (love those words!) take so much away from the language. I write a fair amount in my job, and finally...finally...I have given up all my arguments, have stopped sending Language Log clips and have just decided to do what the editors ask, grammar-wise. It's not worth the blessed energy, and I always lose that battle anyway as they pull out a Strunk and White or something similar. There are more important things in life!