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[Philip Howard. 1985. The State of the Language: English Observed, pp. vii, viii, & 1. Mr Howard is the literary editor of The Times.] [Addendum 06/20/06: Added some omitted text back into the quotation in red; not quite sure what I was thinking of when I dropped it. My apologies to the board, its members, and to Mr Howard.]This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd, —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | ||
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Towards the end of the Nineteenth Century there was no shortage of prescriptivist writers bemoaning the "declining standard of English" at that time. Fowler's The King’s English and Modern English Usage were welcome exceptions to this depressing trend. Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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quote: It is curious and perhaps significant, that previous periods of revolution in English do not seem to have felt such gloom apprehensions. I, like arnie, disagree. He points to the late 19th century. In the first part of that century, British writers viciously attacked the supposed debased usages in the US. And didn't Donne or Swift complain about the degradation of English and call for an academy along the lines of that in France? | |||
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I'm sorry, but the passages I left out talk about Donne, Swift, the 18th century grammarians, et al. I'll try to add those paragraphs back in. —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
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Interestingly, Nathan Bierma wrote a column just today where he mentioned Jonathan Swift. He says, "People have been complaining about the state of the English language for centuries, and they almost always overstate the doom English faces. John Dryden whined in the year 1660 that 'our language is in a manner barbarous.' Jonathan Swift wrote an essay in 1712 called 'Proposal for Correcting, Improving and Ascertaining the English Tongue'." Bierma's article was especially good this week, though I couldn't find it online. It is entitled, "Hopefully, the grammar police will keep advice to themselves" and addresses some of the discussions we've had about prescriptivists. In fact, I emailed the article to a few people in my office, and I am happy to email it to anyone who'd like it. Perhaps in a few days it will be available online. | |||
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Here's the link to Kalleh's article.
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Richard Lederer's website, Verbivore, is worth a visit. —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
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There is no question but that the Mother Tongue is going to hell in a handbasket because we have entered an era when almost any word can be dropped almost anywhere it conceivably might be thought to fit Even though the meaning is exactly opposite the "previous" def Thus very soon it doesn't matter what you say, it can be interpreted to mean anything you want it to I'm not sure whether this makes me a prescriptivist or a descriptivist, but it doesn't matter because before long the two words will be used interchangeably Mark my words | |||
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I'm not sure whether this makes me a prescriptivist or a descriptivist. It makes you a Cassandra.
[Jonathon Swift. 1712. "A Proposal for Correcting, Improving, and Ascertaining the English Tongue" a letter to Robert Earl of Oxford.] Johnathon Swift died in 1745; English is still going strong in spite of his whining. I believe English will outlive the two of us, too. —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
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zm: Yes it will, but not in any kind of recognizable, usable form | |||
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I'm just wondering dale how much meaningful communication you think you would have had with a fifteenth, tenth or fifth century Englishman. Would it be more or less do you think than you might have with a hypothetical twenty-fifth, thirtieth or thirty-fifth century man? "No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson. | |||
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Yes it will, but not in any kind of recognizable, usable form No, that's where you're wrong, dale. It may not be recognizable by us, but it will be both recognizable and usable by its speakers and writers. Here's what English looked like before it degenerated to its present form: Ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned, geong in geardum, þone god sende folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat þe hie ær drugon aldorlease lange hwile. —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
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