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Let's visit some undesirable places. Dogpatch – the prototype of the low-class, rural hick [From the comic strip Li'l Abner by Al Capp, set in the mythical town of Dogpatch] Since this term has not been included in any dictionary, I'll support it with more citations than usual.
– Human Events, April 26, 2004 Benyamin Cohen, editor of the online publication Jewsweek, went to see The Passion Of The Christ and came out homicidal: "My first comprehensible thought was this: I really want to kill a Jew." Maureen Dowd of The New York Times agreed: "Here, you want to kick in some Jewish and Roman teeth. And since the Romans have melted into history...." But I reckon Dowd and Cohen are faking it. They don't mean that marquee columnists and liberal Jewish New Yorkers will be rampaging around looking for Jews to kill, they mean all those rubes and hicks in Dogpatch who don't know any better will be doing so. – Mark Steyn, Jerusalem Post, March 2, 2004 Puerto Ricans will cast their ballots for statehood, independence or a continuation of commonwealth status. But don't Americans have the right not to be saddled with an impoverished, crime-ridden island of non-English speakers as our 51st state? … It's hard to imagine a worse candidate for admission to the Union than this Caribbean Dogpatch. – Don Feder, No Statehood for Caribbean Dogpatch, Boston Herald, Nov. 30, 1998 Hillary Clinton raised the dread specter of a vast anti-Arkansas conspiracy as the hidden factor behind her husband's legal plight. "I think a lot of this is prejudice against our state," the first lady declared. The Dogpatch defense seems bizarre enough to pass the sincerity test. … This is not the first time that Mrs. Clinton has portrayed Arkansas as an unfairly maligned state. – Walter Shapiro, Hillary's Dogpatch Defense, Slate Magazine, Aug. 11, 1998 They depicted Paula [Jones] as a Dogpatch Madonna who cut lose after a strict religious upbringing … smoking, drinking beer, dancing, and doing other things that were forbidden at home. – Melinda Beck, Newsweek, May 23, 1994 | ||
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Two of the citations tie Dogpatch and Arkansas together. Was Li'l Abner specifically from Arkansas, or is it that the state just has a high proportion of hicks? Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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A slough is a stagnant bog or mire, mucky and difficult to slog through. Hence, slough of despond – a state of extreme depression [From John Bunyan's allegory, Pilgrim's Progress: "Now I saw in my dream, that … they drew near to a very miry slough … ; and they, being heedless, did both fall suddenly into the bog. The name of the slough was Despond. Here, therefore, they wallowed for a time, being grievously bedaubed with the dirt; and Christian … began to sink in the mire."]
– Tom Junod, Sports Illustrated, April 10, 1995 | |||
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Slough is also the name of a town west of London. It is a dismal place whose attractions were immortalised by John Betjemen who wrote a poem that started: "Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough! It isn't fit for humans now," You can read it all here: http://www-cdr.stanford.edu/intuition/Slough.html Richard English | |||
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Arnie, I'm so glad you all escaped injury in the bombings! My heart goes out to London... Re your previous post - Dogpatch.. I'm sure Arkansas has plenty of hicks, as do all the remaining 49 states... I have relatives in Minnesota and New York, who would certainly qualify.. And, of course, Arkansas did produce Bill and Hilary... I won't say anymore. There is a good website on Lil' Abner.... http://www.lil-abner.com... if you care to visit it.. Al Capp was a great social satirist. Stay safe! [Edited to correct link by arnie]This message has been edited. Last edited by: arnie, | |||
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potter's field - a burial ground for burying paupers and unclaimed bodies; also figurative [alludes to the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 27] The term is more interesting when used figuratively. For example:
– Edward Dahlberg (1900-1977), U.S. author, critic; "For Sale," Alms for Oblivion (1964) Trite terms represent simplications of real and sometimes important concepts that can be very useful, until we forget what it was they were supposed to be useful about. They then become dangerous, empty reifications or are relegated to menial uses and finally buried in the potter's field of pedantry. – Lawrence B. Slobodkin, Simplicity and Complexity in Games of the Intellect Ventures into Verse: Being Various Ballads, Ballades, Rondeaux, Triolets, Songs, Quatrains, Odes and Roundelays. Rescued from the Potters' Field of Old Files and Here Given Decent Burial [Peace to their Ashes] – Title page of H.L. Mencken's first book, 1903 (very rare; 100 copies printed, only 37 survive) | |||
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Thanks KHC! According to that site there used to be a Dogpatch theme park in Arkansas... Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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Arnie, Wouldn't you just LOVE to visit that park? Thanks for correcting my post... I'm just not sure what I did wrong. Glad you are safe and sound.. | |||
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The Bible tells that Judas was paid thirty pieces of silver to betray Christ. That money was used to buy a potter's field, which became known as the "field of blood" – which, in the local tongue, was Alcedama. Acts 1:19; Matthew 27:8. Hence today's word, which is quite rare. aceldama – a field of blood; a bloody battlefield
– Edmund Burke (private letter) (US Civil War, 1862): During the ten days I remained at Corinth the town was a perfect aceldama … The wounded were brought in by hundreds. Above 5000 wounded men, demanding instant and constant attendance … A much larger proportion of amputations was performed than would have been necessary if the wounds could have received earlier attention. On account of exposure, many wounds were gangrenous. Where amputation was performed, eight out of ten died. – William G. Stevenson, quoted in Harold Elk Straubing, In Hospital and Camp … while carnage was laying its scores of victims around him-we behold him riding from point to point, bringing order out of confusion, and leading away from that aceldama the shattered battalions of the proud army of the morning … – B.J. Lossing, George Washington's Mount Vernon intestine (adj.) – internal | |||
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Hooverville – a shantytown of temporary homes [Areas like this, thrown up at the start of the Great Depression, were sardonically named after then-president Herbert Hoover] Would you agree that this term, unlike (say) 'slum' or 'shantytown', conveys a sense of disconnection, dispossession?
– Nick Gillespie (book review), Reason, Dec. 1996 [Review of the movie "Cinderella Man'] Poverty is an inadequate word to describe the circumstances Americans found themselves in during the period. While Howard does create a sense that it was a very short stroll from Hooverville to Potters Field, he neglects the larger social and economic forces that drove the downturn. – Duane Dudek, The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, June 3, 2005 | |||
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take to the woodshed (or 'to woodshed') – U.S politics: 1. orig.: to 'grill' someone brutally, in private; to subject to no-holds-barred questioning 2. more commonly: to criticize scathingly. From the image of a pioneer father taking his son "out behind the woodshed" for a serious talking-to, perhaps using a leather strap to emphasize his point.
– Bill Sammon, The Washington Times, June 22, 2005
… Dusko Doder, our cigar-chomping expert on Soviet affair for the last twelve years … we couldn't pull Doder off the [story] on the basis of hearsay testimony from a once and future KGB agent. Ed Williams took Doder to the woodshed, as we had requested, grilling him for almost two hours, and reporting back to me: "Fuck 'em … he's a terrific guy … the charges are horse shit." | |||
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From the OED Online:
It seems from these quotes that the phrase originally referred to applying physical discipline, and later acquired a musical meaning (which I had never heard of). The political meaning is simply a metaphorical extension of the original meaning. Tinman | |||
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I must say that none of these US uses for woodshed appear to have crossed the pond. My first thought is of Great Aunt Ada Doom in Stella Gibbon's wonderful novel Cold Comfort Farm, who saw something nasty therein. Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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Years ago I had a record called: "In the Woodshed She said She Would", which I always thought was by Lesley Sarony. However it seems it was written by H Johnson and M Siegel. Maybe Sarony perfomed it but, as he used usually to write his own material, that seems strange. In this instance the woodshed was the solution to the lovelorn singer's prayers since it was in the woodshed that she said ahe would (kiss him, that is - this was 1928 after all!) Richard English | |||
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“Woodshed” also appears in the phrase, “something nasty in the woodshed” in the OED Online:
Look again at the 1968 quote, “…something nasty in the woodshed, mother or father or both, having it off with someone else.” That may be the precursor to the 1980s U.S. slang phrase, “doing the nasty.” Tinman | |||
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ghetto – a part of a city in which a group is isolated (esp. a poor part, with confinement by social, legal, or economic pressure). fig: a similarly isolating situaton (esp. one of poor status or poor opportunity) Though the word is familiar, its origin is not. It comes from the area in which 14th-century confined its Jews. The neighbor had formerly been an iron foundry; in Italian, getto. A 1555 papal bull forced the Jews of Rome to live only in the designated ghetto area. It is perhaps appropriate that the title of that bull was Cum nimis absurdum. | |||
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<wordnerd> |
PS, antedating the above: Here (bottom of page) is an earlier cite, a bit of a ditty from 1863. The author puns – note his title – and plays on "out of the woods" and "nigger in a woodpile". There's further punning if "made your pile of wood" was slang for "made your fortune", like "He made a pile in that deal."
Well, New York, you've made your pile Of Wood, and, if you like, may smile: Laugh, if you will, to split your sides, But in that Wood pile a nigger hides, With a double face beneath his hood: Don't hurra till you're out of your Wood. – Continental Monthly, April 1863 | ||
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Wordnerd, I don't see that 'something nasty in the woodshed' was an euphemism for 'nigger in the woodpile'. Beyond the use use of 'wood', there is unlikely to be any connection, I'd say. At the time of writing in 1932 'nigger in the woodpile' was not uncommon over here, and Stella Gibbon would have been unlikely to have wanted to 'sanitise' the phrase. In any case, we are left in doubt as to exactly what Great Aunt Ada had seen, although we are led to believe it had a sexual connotation. The other phrase has a quite different meaning, that of a problem or stumbling-block. Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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<wordnerd> |
arnie, I don't think I agree with you, but this may get to be a long discussion. A few quick points.
PS: Does anyone have Cassell's Dictionary of Slang? It seems to define the n-word phrase, but the relevant page is not available in google-books. | ||
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I'm basing the statement about the 1930s on my own memories. Although the thirties were before I was born, I can remember the 'nigger' phrase being used in the fifties and sixties over here. As I said, it was not uncommon in those times; if anything I suspect it would heve been even more common twenty years earlier. I feel reasonably sure that 'something nasty in the woodshed' was coined by Stella Gibbon and caught readers' imagination. Possibly she heard someone talking about something nasty and used it in her novel; we cannot tell now. I can't agree that two two phrases have close enough meanings to indicate that they come from the same root or that the 'nasty' phrase is an euphemism for the 'nigger' phrase. Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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<Asa Lovejoy> |
Back to Dogpatch: Since L'il Abner has been gone for a long time, my memory may be hazy, but I do NOT remember it as being an unpleasant place - ESPECIALLY with Daisy Mae around! Asa, native of a little hick town in South Carolina | ||
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I thought you gave up Daisys for Sunflowers! Tinman | |||
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I remember a camp song I learned from my father called "Happy Sunday School", which is how he learned it. It is a cute and catchy song which I sang at many campfires with my Boy Scout Troop. At some point it was discovered the original song was "Darkie Sunday School", and it was no longer appropriate for us to sing in front of the camp. I thought this was ridiculous, and we still sang it amongst our (all white from a white suburb) troop, but couldn't at the campwide events. A list of the various choruses is here, as well as a ridiculous number of verses. http://www.whitetreeaz.com/yfof/yfofword.htm | |||
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Hoovervilles Tinman | |||
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<Asa Lovejoy> |
Daisy's just a distant memory! Besides, she's L'il Abner's girl! Daisys and Sunflowers are pretty similar anyhow, but Sunflowers have more seeds! | ||
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A further illustrative quote on Dogpatch, the word that started this thread:
wildflowerchild, July 22, 2002 | |||
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<Asa Lovejoy> |
Whatever bacame of her? Anyone know? | ||
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Asa, none of us has been able to reach her after she lost her Internet connection. I was in Atlanta at a conference once and tried to call reach her, to no avail. I hope that she has just forgotten about little old Wordcraft and has moved on. | |||
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Reviving a thread... I have been reading a book on Jews in the early part of the century, and the author refers to Louis Wirth's Ghetto, which I haven't read. Apparently at that time some used the word ghetto merely to mean "community." From what I can tell, there didn't seem to be a negative connotation. For example, this is a quote from Robert Park during that time: "Every people and every cultural group may be said to create and maintain its own ghetto." I've only thought of ghetto in a negative light. Have some of you seen it used to mean "community"? | |||
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<Asa Lovejoy> |
I'd only heard stetl for "community." | ||
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Not having read either book, I hesitate to opine, but ... I see how a ghetto could be considered a community (as well as a shtetl), but I would hesitate to use the terms synonymously. Wirth's book is not fully available on Google Books, but I did read a new introduction to The Ghetto by Hasia Diner (link). Ghetto is an Italian word originally. It is the name of an island near Venice to which Jews were restricted in the 16th century. Its etymology is uncertain. Shtetl is from Yiddish and means literally 'small city'. —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
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