Chicago is an interesting place these days. Not only has there been a plot to blow up the Sear's Tower, but also the White Sox manager has called a reporter a "fag." Well...I am not sure because the Chicago Tribune apparently can't write that word. So they called it "an obscenity-laced tirade" and a "derogatory, three-letter term for a homosexual," and finally "a cruel f-word that rhymes with 'flag'."

Then the manager's excuse? It's a Venezuelan way of calling a man a coward, not a homosexual. I don't buy it.

Gosh, I thought it was an acronym for a German bearing manufacturer. So a FAG is someone with lots of balls? Or someone who's a "high roller?" Or a smooth operator? http://www.fag.com/content/en/company/company.jsp

And here I thought it meant cigarette.

Either way, zmj, it's intriguing to contemplate what sort of dish the British mean by faggots and gravy.

Thanks. H&U, I looked it up. Food names are almost as interesting as place- and surnames.

It also means the former (mostly) practice in many public (that is, private) schools of a junior pupil acting as a sort of batman for senior pupils. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging

As an update, the manager has been given a fine...and assigned to immediate sensitivity training.

And you think Chicago is boring.

quote:

Either way, zmj, it's intriguing to contemplate what sort of dish the British mean by faggots and gravy.

It's usually faggots and peas pudding, actually. Those coming here in October can try the dish if they wish - with some spotted dick to follow.

Does faggots and peas cause spotted dick?

Around here it's menudo, I think.

Wikipedia says about FAGGING

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Younger boys within the school "fagged" for the older boys (often prefects) by performing other menial tasks . . .

I think that's very similar to what "fag" means here in the states, don't you?

Part of the problem may be that I don't see "fag" as that offensive of a word...surely not like the "n" word. Yet, my son says it is incredibly offensive. On the other hand, my son also thinks "queer" is offensive, which we have discussed here before as being accepted by the gay community. Do the rest of you see "fag" as incredibly offensive?

It is interesting that the Chicago Tribune wouldn't even print the word, but the Chicago Sun Times did. Perhaps it had to do with the fact that the reporter was from the Sun Times (Jay Mariotti). Another interesting part was that wasn't all this manager (Ozzie Guillen) had to say. With the "fag" comment, he also said that Mariotti is "a piece of s----" and "a f------ fag." Sorry, I just can't bring myself to write those words out. Perhaps I am wrong to write out "fag" too. I will see what some of you say.

Lastly, another of Guillen's explanations for using "fag" was to mean that Mariotti wasn't "man enough" to come and meet him face to face. He said that's how it's meant in Venezuela. That sounds more derogatory to me that the word "fag." Just because someone is gay means he's not a "man?" Now that's an insult!

It's a meaningless question for us. We just don't use the word that way at all.

On the other hand if you want to know do I find cigarettes offensive, yes I do especially when I'm in a pub having a meal. Thankfully new rules are on the way banning smoking in pubs.

Maybe 'fag' is being assimilated and turned into a (defiantly) positive self-descriptor just as 'queer' was. This seems to be a not uncommon defense mechanism among marginalized groups for whom the majority culture has a rich phraseology of insults and putdowns.

I remember a term in Armistead Maupin's marvelous Tales of the City: 'fag hag', applied to Mona, in a completely positive sense, as a straight girl who liked the company of gay guys.

Phroggye

Will the smoke-free pubs be established by the time we get there in October? I'm asthmatic, so going into smoky places is not something I do.

Asa,

No I'm afraid not. Several pubs here have smoke-free areas, though, and a few are non-smoking already. I can't speak for those in the Birmingham area, though.

Thanks, arnie.I'm sure we can find some pubs there that have banned smoldering fags (earlier meaning!).

I just looked it up, and I find that there's a "faggot stitch" in sewing. So, Jo, whaddaya know about this?

Re the original meaning, it comes from the Greek phakelos, a bundle of sticks gathered together so as to set them alight. By extension, a "flaming homosexual" would be called a fag, but less obvious one would not, I suppose, unless it were intended as an insult, as in Kalleh's original post.

I really am wondering, for those of you who know about this word's link to homosexuality, is it incredibly offensive?

I really am wondering, for those of you who know about this word's link to homosexuality, is it incredibly offensive?

Like many offensive terms, it depends on the context and who's using it, and how.

I agree with zmj . . . it depends on who says it. It is cool and hip for one African-American person to call another a "niggah", but I would never use the term.

If a group of burly young men were to call another boy a fag, it would be terribly offensive. However, a dear friend of mine has a t-shirt that he wears for Pride celebrations that says "That's Mr. Fag to you."