So, you disobeyed and peeked anyway, did you? OK, then please tell me where the idiotic expression, "Don't go there" came from. I also hear people, especially young females, saying, "I go (bla, bla, bla...) as though "go" had replaced "say" or "said." Why, why, why?

In the UK we blame 'don't go there' on US psychobabble. It's not too objectionable, as it is only ever said ironically.

As for 'I go' instead of 'I say' - that was actually how I used to speak, and there is nothing wrong with it whatsoever. It was the natural phrase to use when relating conversations. Nowadays, people say 'I was like' instead. This is the phrase of Satan and users should be punished by death.

From somewhere comes this snippet of teen talk ..

quote:

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"I told my friend about you and she was like No Way and I was like Way and she was like Wow."

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Oh, Asa, you struck a chord* with me on "Let's not go there." I simply detest it. I agree with Graham that it is psychobabble in the first place; in the second place, since I was the one who said it originally, it seems as though you are saying, "I know better what topics we should discuss." Therefore, I consider it an insult and will respond accordingly.

* Now,I am not sure "strike a chord" is the correct phrase. While online dictionary defined it as "create an emotional response", which was what I meant, it also means that it "hits home" or is "relevant", which is not what I meant.

[This message was edited by Kalleh on Fri Jul 25th, 2003 at 14:26.]

quote:

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Originally posted by jerry thomas:
From somewhere comes this snippet of teen talk ..

quote:

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"I told my friend about you and she was like No Way and I was like Way and she was like Wow."

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This afternoon I had lunch in one of those food court places and the two teenage girls on the adjacent table kept up this kind of conversation for the whole time I was there - about twenty minutes. (Actually it was more of a monologue with accompanying grunts from the other girl.)

And he's like I wanted to call you and I'm like yeah right you never call anybody and he's like no really and I'm like really and he's like really but I'm all out of credits and I'm like why don't you top and he's like...

Sometimes you just feel like killing something.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

Yes, Bob, I agree that it can be quite annoying! I have a teenager, and I hear that kind of talk way too much. We had a similar discussion of this in December, though unfortunately the Tribune link doesn't work anymore.

Boy Meets Boy, a cartoon series.

See panel three.

Whilst we're talking about pet-hates, "anymore" doesn't exist. Anyhow, anything, anyway, anywhere etc. do, of course, but "anymore" doesn't, though Poe's "nevermore" does.

quote:

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Whilst we're talking about pet-hates, "anymore" doesn't exist.

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The reason I make sooooo many mistakes here is so that when others make a mistake, they won't feel bad! Sorry, people. For the record, I did ask myself if it was (were? Now I'm paranoid!) a word. The problem was that I answered myself, rather than looking it up!

Anyways ,,,


ANYMORE exists !!

Well, then what was the criticism? I am confused. [Of course, wouldn't you think I would have looked it up the second time?]

quote:

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Originally posted by jerry thomas:
Anyways ,,,


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anymore

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I checked it in OED2 and it doesn't there. I must say, I rather trust the OED!

Anymore definitely exists. The OED Online (often accessible through your local library) includes it under more, C 4:

4. Additionally, in addition. (Cf. A. 4.) a. In negative, interrogative, or hypothetical contexts: In repetition or continuance of what has taken place up to a particular time; further, longer, again. Frequent in phrases ever more, never more (see EVERMORE, NEVERMORE), once more (see ONCE 8b). The phrase any more (freq. written as anymore) (see B. 4a), in which more is the absolute adj., is used advb. in the same sense, and has superseded the simple adv. except in rhetorical or poetic use; also dial. (chiefly U.S.) used in affirmative as well as negative contexts in the sense ‘now, now-a-days, at the present time; from now on’. See also NO MORE adv.

And from Oxford Reference Online:

1. anymore (100%)
•adv. chiefly N. Amer. variant of any more (see any).
(From The Concise Oxford Dictionary in English Dictionaries and Thesauruses)


2. anymore (100%)
Unless it appears in a negative statement <the playground has no sand anymore>, this word is dialectal in the sense “nowadays”—e.g.: “Anymore [read Nowadays or These days], the price of housing is outrageous.”
(From The Oxford Dictionary of American Usage and Style in English Language Reference)


Tinman

[This message was edited by tinman on Wed Jul 30th, 2003 at 23:21.]

Well, I give. As much as I hate to admit defeat, Bear was correct; the OED in my library did not have anymore. For the record, on this word site, before this discussion there were 30 references to anymore, posted by 14 different people.

Now, interestingly, all of the following were listed in the OED, and a few of them are sketchy to me. I am going to have a talk with Erin McKean and Jesse Sheidlower!

Here are the "any" words listed in the published OED:
anywise
anywhither (!)
anywhere
anywhence (!)
anywhen (!)
anywhat (!)
anyway or anyways
anythingarian
anythingarianism
anything
anyplace
anylengthian
anykyn
anyhow
anydeal (!)
anybody

OOOOHHHHH I do hate to be wrong! It is even more maddening to be wrong when all these stupid "any" words are included. Really, now, Anydeal? Anywhence? Anywhither?

I promise not to use anymore any more!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kalleh:
the OED in my library did not have anymore.
Are you sure? It was in the OED Online (1989) under the word more. See my July 28 post. It's also found under the entry any more in the Dec. 2002 edition of the OED Online:

1, b. 1961 T. MURPHY Whistle in Dark in Plays (1989) IV. II. 47 We'll squeeze Michael a bit. He'll chip in anymore. 1979 Whig-Standard (Kingston, Ontario) 20 Nov. 1/3 Everything we do anymore seems to have to be done in a big hurry.

2. 1978 Dædalus Summer 152 It is not an education manual, anymore than Plato's Republic is advice to rulers.

Tinman

The Concise Oxford does have "anymore" but suggests that it is a North American variant.

It also mentions in a usage note that there is sometimes a difference in meaning between the conjoined word and the separate words, citing as an example, "anyone" (meaning anybody) and "any one", which has a numerical sense.

I would feel that this distinction could also apply to "anymore" and "any more", as for example in the expressions:

"We don't make them anymore" (we no longer make them)

and, "We don't make them any more sturdy" (we only make them to this level of sturdiness)

Richard English

Tinman, I will check. Since Bear said it wasn't in his OED 2, I thought maybe the online version was different and that Bear would only accept the published OED version. However, I am off tonight to look under "more". The word is used a lot in the midwest. When I searched it on this site, it wasn't only Americans who used it; some of the Brits here have used it, too. If I recall Graham and Tapole were 2 who have used it in their writing.

Now, I had not heard the word "anythingarian" before. It means an "indifferentist", according to OED. I learn something new everyday!

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
Now, I had not heard the word "anythingarian" before. It means an "indifferentist", according to OED. I learn something new everyday!

---

And suitable for a double-dactyl, too.

Merriam-Websters and AHD each list "anymore" as a perfectly legitimate word; indeed, M-W reports that "anymore" (as a single word; contrast "any more") is "the more common styling." Of the various usages given, only one is listed as being regionalism.

Similar to "don't go there", I just hate "get a life". How insulting. Do people use that in the U.K.?

Sadly this expresssion is common over here. It is usually uttered by those whose concept of life revolves around emphemera and is used by them to castigate those who show an interest in more cerebral things.

It was used about me when I wrote a letter to a newspaper to point out that an expression used by one of their communicants, "...a Bic Biro..." was oxymoronic!

Richard English

quote:

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... those whose concept of life revolves around emphemera ...

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Did you mean ephemera?

If, on the other hand, their concept of life revolves around ephemeris, it could be somewhat interesting, albeit limited.

Indeed, yes.

Sadly there is no spellcheck on this board which would help to eliminate such typos - which was, of course, all it was.

Richard English

After having complained about the lack of a spell-checker on this board, what do I find?

Try http://www.iespell.com

Richard English

Richard, If you want to do so, you can edit your original "get a life" post, correcting the spelling. Then I can delete my response(s)(including this one) and thus we can forget your inadvertent and pardonable typographical error.

~~~ jerry

Ah well, we are all human and and thus blest with human frailties - of which typing errors is just one.

On webboards I find it in my nature to be forgiving; on permanent websites or paper publications I am less likely to be so laid back!

Richard English

It seems to me that the same sort of person who would use "Don't go there!" would be the same one to say things like, "Girlfriend!" and "Talk to the hand." I think this type of language has come into our culture (or lack thereof!) by way of the daytime talk shows. The mothers who stole the boyfriends of their teenage crack-ho daughters and those who watch them, do indeed have their own lexicon.

"Like" and "Goes" on the other hand have been around since at least when I was a teenager back in the late 70s-early 80s.

Talk to the hand?

"Talk to the hand" is used when two people are talking and the one person no longer wishes to hear what the other person has to say. One will put up their hand like a cop telling traffic to stop, and say, "Talk to the hand 'cause the ears can't hear you." It has since been shortened to "Talk to the hand." I've seen women use this at the grocery store when their kids are whining for something.

My immediate reaction is, "How unspeakably rude".

Sadly, I suppose this more a reflection on my age and different standards than it is on the expression itself.

Richard English

In Gestures: The DO's and TABOOs of Body Language Around the World (John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 1998), Roger Axtel talks about the moutza:

"Another insulting gesture with deep historic roots is the moutza of Greece. This is known as the hand push. At first glance, it merely looks like the person is holding his palm out toward you , as a traffic policeman might do to signal 'Stop!' It is often accompanied by closing one eye and placing the other hand on the knee.

"The moutza reaches back into ancient Greek history when fecal matter and dirt were hurled or pushed into the face of war prisoners. As a signal of insult, it survives with important implications even today. A Western tourist visiting Greece might casually reject a vendor's plea with the hand, palm up and outward, and unknowingly be using an ugly signal as old as the Acropolis. And in West Africa this gesture means 'You could have any one of five fathers!' which is another way of calling a person a bastard." (p. 36)

I couldn't find moutza in any dictionary, but I did find it online. Here are a few sources:

1996 New York Times article (scroll down to Stop near the bottom of the page)

The Finger (about half-way down)

Breaking the Barriers by Jon Gardey (under Keep your hands to yourself near the bottom)

Tinman

[This message was edited by tinman on Thu Aug 14th, 2003 at 2:19.]

Keep your hands to yourself near the
bottom)
---------------------------------
Near whose bottom, Tinman?

quote:

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
Keep your hands to yourself near the
bottom)
---------------------------------
Near whose bottom, Tinman?

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Use your discretion. If the owner of the bottom doesn't object, why should I?

Tinman

[This message was edited by tinman on Thu Aug 14th, 2003 at 21:43.]