How did "band" come to mean the musical group as well as things like hat bands and rubber bands? Does it have other meanings, too?

I think it is interesting when words have such different meanings. In this case, how in the heck can 'band' in rubberband be related to a musical band? Is it that they band together to make music?

Here's what AHD says about the etymology:

[Middle English bende(from Old English bend, and from Old French bande, bende of Germanic origin), and Middle English bond, band(from Old Norse, band); see bhendh- in Indo-European Roots.]

That's what I hate. So???? What did it mean in Middle English and Old English and Old French and German and Norse and Indo-European roots? What good is all that when it doesn't show you how the meaning came about? I don't get it.

What did it mean in Middle English and Old English and Old French and German and Norse and Indo-European roots?

What's the prob? A band is something that is bound together. If you look at the PIE root *bhendh- it has something to do with banding (or binding) together. No great stretch (no pun on rubberbands) of your semantic imagination. Binding, bonding, and bundling ...

This is why the only dictionary I use is Oxford, because they give senses in historical sequence so you can trace the development of ideas.

In the case of bind/bend/band/bond however it's very complicated. In summary, Old English used the verb (that survives as) bind and the noun bend, covering bands, strips, bonds, etc.

The word bend shifted its primary meaning via binding a string into a bow to tautening a bow to making a curve in anything, as you curve a bow. There it rests, now meaning 'curve', noun and verb, having largely lost other senses of 'bind, bond, band'.

Middle English acquired band in three distinct senses, one from Norse and two from Middle French.

1. A thing that binds: a shackle, fetter, etc.; a string, tie, strap, etc. An agreement binding people [1483]; a security for such an agreement [1521]. In all these senses the usual modern form is bond, which is a northern phonetic variant of southern band (cf. mon), so this came from Norse, which had more influence in the north.

2. A flat thin strap used to bind, clasp, or gird [1483]. In particular a strip of linen to bandage the body [1568]; and a thin strip of a material like leather or later rubber for binding round an object [1611]. Also a broad stripe across anything [1470]; a geological stratum resembling a stripe [1837]. From French bande, bende, itself taken from Germanic and so cognate with original English bind, bend.

3. An organized company, a troop [1490]. A company of musicians [1660]. From another French word bande 'company, troop', also from Germanic.

This simplifies a lot by leaving out intermediate and less-used senses. With such similar words there'd be a lot of influence between senses too.

Middle English acquired band in three distinct senses, one from Norse and two from Middle French.

The two French words have two different immediate origins (according to Meyer-Lübke):

(929) bandvja (Gothic) 'symbol, sign', *banna (Frankish). [Either one or the other is the origin, not both.] This gave Italian banda as in 'troop' (whence the French bande, and Italian bandiera 'flag, standard'.

(1110) binda (Germanic) 'bandage, binding, ribbon'. This yields both Italian benda and French bende, bande as well as a bunch of Romance buddies.

quote:

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(929) _bandvja_ (Gothic) 'symbol, sign', *_banna_ (Frankish). [Either one or the other is the origin, not both.] This gave Italian _banda_ as in 'troop' (whence the French _bande_, and Italian _bandiera_ 'flag, standard'.

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Bande is also slang for erection in French; I always wondered where that came from. Sort of similar to 'schmuck'.

Not sure of the ultimate etymology of the French bander, but Yiddish shmak 'penis, fool' is not related to German Schmuck 'jewel, adornment', but may be related to Polish smok 'snake, tail', or it may have come from Slovenian šmok 'fool' (cf. German Schmock 'fool').

This is why the only dictionary I use is Oxford, because they give senses in historical sequence so you can trace the development of ideas.

You see, that was the "prob.", jheem. To just give the words in all the evolving languages doesn't do it for me. When I am really interested in discussing a word, I like to know how the definitions developed. The online dictionaries are worse, though, than those in print. I need to go to my hard copy AHD, rather than to try to get any good etymology out of the dictionary.com or onelook dictionaries. My laziness, I guess.

K., you should get an OED then. In print or on CD-ROM. Thougha good Middle English and Old English dictionary would go a long way to supplementing an OED. I'm sorry but the Web is a pretty pisspoor substitute for a good reference library.

The problem that I was asking rhetorically about is that all the meanings of the foreign words cited seem to hang together in a semantic kind of way. For me.

K., you should get an OED then.

Yes, I will. Shu has wanted one for ages, but I have been too cheap. We do go to the library and look up words. Other times, our librarians are so nice that Shu will call them with a question, and they will go to the OED and look it up! Still, we should buy one.

For me.

Ah...that's the clue!

I imagine that wedding band is related in that it bands the couple together, right?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,