Someone at a conference said, "If I had my druthers, I'd..." Then she added that druthers was a word only used in the south. I've heard it a lot in the north. Is it a regionalism? Do they use the word in England?
Nor have I - it appears to be exclusively American. I understand that it's a contraction of a dialect pronunciation of "I'd rather...". In what part of the US do they pronounce "rather" as "ruther"?
In no part that I know of, Guy, although in the Central South they come close, based on my experience. I think it's a long-standing contraction in which the pronunciation has drifted. I've used it myself for years.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti
Dialect notes, Volume 1, p. 388, published in 1890 by American Dialect Society, lists druthers as a southern word.
quote:
druthers: choice preference. "To have one's druthers" = to have what one "would rather" have "Bein's I caint have my druthers an' set still, I cal'late I'd better pearten up an' go 'long." South.
The Phrase Finder says that quote is from 1876. It also traces a predecessor, drathers to 1870.
The OED Online:
quote:
druther, v. U.S. dialectal alteration of (I, you, etc.) would rather. 1876 ‘M. Twain’ Adventures Tom Sawyer ix. 89 I'd druther [sc. rather] they was devils a dern sight. 1896 ‘M. Twain’ Tom Sawyer, Detective ix. 74 ‘Any way you druther have it, that is the way I druther have it. He—— .’ ‘There ain't any druthers about it, Huck Finn; nobody said anything about druthers.’
Derivatives
ˈdruther n. (also 'druthers, ˈruther, ˈruthers) a choice, preference. 1895Dial. Notes 1 388 Bein's I caint have my druthers an' set still, I cal'late I'd better pearten up an' go 'long. 1941 W. A. Percy Lanterns on Levee (1948) xxii. 292 ‘Your ruthers is my ruthers’ (what you would rather is what I would rather). Certainly the most amiable and appeasing phrase in any language, the language used being not English but deep Southern.
Google books says Dialect notes, Volume 1 was published in 1890; the OED says it was published in 1895. I don't know why the discrepancy.
I think druthers spread from the South to the entire USA with Al Capp's Li'l Abner (If I had my druthers, I'd druther po'k chops). The comic strip was published from August 13, 1934 through November 13, 1977. It was made into a film in 1940, a Broadway musical in 1956, and a musical film in 1959. One of the songs from the 1956 musical was "If I had my druthers."
Heard one of the hosts on Mythbusters use "druthers" the other night. But he also used a term I've seldom heard in conversation: "I reckon..." Used to be used in old cowboy movies but haven't heard it recently at all.
Take the word "neither." Today I heard someone pronounce it "NYEther" while the common pron is "NEEther". If that's the case, why don't we pron, as an alternative, "believe (beeLEEve)" as "beeLYEve"?
I've also heard a common term being misused several times recently. Yesterday on a newscast a witness to a tragic fire said, "When I saw the flames, I had a pit in my stomach." Others usd the same terminology in other circumstances but the actual term is "...a feeling in the pit..."This message has been edited. Last edited by: <Proofreader>,
I reckon y'all don't git out much, Proofreader! Big Grin
Speaking of "y'all," my girls and I have been in Charleston this weekend. On one of our walking tours, the leader said that the plural of "y'all" is "all y'all." I hadn't heard that one, but then I am from the north.
Originally posted by Proofreader: Take the word "neither." Today I heard someone pronounce it "NYEther" while the common pron is "NEEther".
Surely you're aware of this song by the great George and Ira Gershwin?
My understanding is that the two pronunciations are used fairly indiscriminately across the English-speaking world, although some sources suggest that "NEEther" is commoner in the US and "NYEther" in the UK. I myself use the latter.
quote:
If that's the case, why don't we pron, as an alternative, "believe (beeLEEve)" as "beeLYEve"?
That's "ie", not "ei", although I suppose you could make the same remark about "receive". The pronunciation of "ei" varies quite widely in any case. How do you pronounce "heinous", for instance? I say "HAYnus", but I've heard both "HEEnus" and occasionally "HYEnus" (not to mention "HEEnius", which is unquestionably wrong!).
quote:
I've also heard a common term being misused several times recently. Yesterday on a newscast a witness to a tragic fire said, "When I saw the flames, I had a pit in my stomach." Others usd the same terminology in other circumstances but the actual term is "...a feeling in the pit..."
I've never heard that one, but it does remind me of a similar mangled idiom: "the proof is in the pudding" instead of "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". It's as though people remember the component parts of the phrase but can't remember how to put them together.
Usually, but not always. Most of the time y'all is used with reference to a second person plural. It is possible that y'all can be used with a singular anaphoric reference, but it seems to be that it refers to you (sg) and yours (family, group). Some langauges use a 2nd person plural pronoun to refer to 2nd person singular in a formal context, e.g., German (where the originally 3rd person plural is used with 2nd person sg/pl reference), English (where you was originally the oblique form of ye, the 2nd person plural pronoun), etc.. That some Southerners (the South is a large region with many dialects) use y'all to refer to a single person, and that other Southerns prescribe this usage, seems to indicate that y'allcan be used this way.
Some people misinterpret the phrase "all y'all" as meaning that Southerners use the "y'all" as singular and "all y'all" as plural. However, "all y'all" is used to specify that all members of the second person plural (i.e., all persons currently being addressed and/or all members of a group represented by an addressee) are included; that is, it operates in contradistinction to "some of y'all," thereby functioning similarly to "all of you" in standard English.
Then there was the Southern yacht builder who said, "Yawl come." Proofreader, I expect you to say something about his being "three sheets to the wind."
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti
As for what is right, I have heard more than one Southerner assert that y'all can be used with a singular subject. Not being a Southerner, or that familiar with actual Southern dialects, I cannot say for sure one way or another. I'm just saying that given the development of 2nd person pronouns in other languages I am more familiar with, I would not rule out that y'all was originally plural, but changed to singular (for reasons above), and that all y'all developed to disambiguate.
A set of question for the speakers of a Southern dialect: (1) which dialect and how long did you live in the region where that dialect was spoken; (2) have you ever heard all y'all used in the wild; (3) is that form "incorrect"; and (4) if not, what does it mean in contrast to y'all?
Mark Liberman writes about singular y'all on two occasions: link and link. I was surprised by this:
quote:
Thomas Nunnally (1994) has offered a second hypothesis for the emergence of yall as a singular. He suggests that it may well be expanding to fill the role of a polite singular, just as you did several centuries ago. He points out that many of the citations of yall-singular show the form occurring at the edges of discourse-in greetings, partings, and so forth. The following citation, provided to us by Robin Sabino (1994), certainly fulfills this function. Sabino overheard an African-American waitress in an Opelika, Alabama, restaurant say to a customer eating alone, "How are you-all's grits?"
I still think that the situation is in transition and like most language change, it upsets the guardians of language all the way to eleven.
Y'all is also used by inner-city people. Granted, much of their slang seems to be related to or derived from a Southern dialect (in my experience). Many of the people I see on a daily basis use "y'all" and "all y'all" as part of their normal speech, and Ohio is definitely a Northern state. The words show up in rap and hip-hop, as well, and when people in the neighborhood ('hood) are speaking in an informal register they will use these words and many more colorful terms as well.
Translated: Yo! We gon' talk how we like, y'all. Git out'tha way fore I get all up in all y'alls grills.
******* "Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~Dalai Lama
I've also heard a common term being misused several times recently. Yesterday on a newscast a witness to a tragic fire said, "When I saw the flames, I had a pit in my stomach." Others usd the same terminology in other circumstances but the actual term is "...a feeling in the pit..."
I'm glad I posted this since Language Log has a post two days later on the same subject. Apparently I'm a leader in the field now.
Well yours truly has been all around the country lately and not on WC as much as I'd like to be...so I am probably putting my foot in my mouth. However, here is that link that I think Proof is talking about. It's an interesting read: Link
Yes, I agree, CW, that y'all is used up here in the north, too, by inner city folks. I have always thought y'all was either singular or plural. I enjoyed reading z's links from Language Log. Love that site! It is so much better than any other word site, including those that are popular and written up a lot.
