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I heard a great phrase today, describing Arnold Schwarzenegger: "beefy lothario"! I hadn't heard the word lothario before, though Shufitz says it is common enough. [Oh for the day when I know a word that he doesn't know!] Lothario means a womanizer or one who seduces women. Now, one definition for it in dictionary.com was "libertine." But, isn't the meaning of "libertine" more general than "womanizer"? It means one who acts without moral restraint, right? Does a womanizer have to be "libertine"? Surely, you can be "libertine" without being a womanizer. And, for the record, Bob, these were dictionary definitions, not thesaurus definitions. I love Fuller's 1845 beer...and the Cubs! | ||
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In the past it was common to refer to a "gay lothario", that is, one who treated his affairs in a light-hearted and jovial fashion. Sadly the hijacking of the word gay by homosexuals means that the term would now be misconstrued. Such a shame. Richard English | |||
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quote: A great shame, becuase there are so many oher positive words to describe homosexuals. | |||
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| <Asa Lovejoy> |
the term would now be misconstrued. --------------------------------------------- Or, as comedian Norm Crosby, who made a career out of Spoonerising and otherwise mangling English would say, it (and the "beefy Lothario's" victims) would be misconscrewed. Often gay Asa | ||
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| <Asa Lovejoy> |
Richard and Graham, what say we begin a campaign to establish "Gay Rites?" We'll have cheerful ceremonies! | ||
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Okay, if a female homosexual is called a "lesbian" what is a male homosexual called? No, this is not the start of a rude joke, I really want to know. It there a term, other than rude ones, that would fit this purpose? | |||
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| <Asa Lovejoy> |
if a female homosexual is called a "lesbian" what is a male homosexual called ------------------------------------------------ I often see the phrase, "gay and lesbian" in various print media. Don't ask me to make any sense of it, though. | ||
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quote: Actually, like queer, it was adopted by gay people to rehabilitate it. If you feel you have to snigger every time the word gay is used, then you have my sympathy. Gay was first used in a pejorative way – presumably by homophobes – in the mid-seventeenth century. I can differentiate its meaning; don't tell me that you're upset with it as a word because it's a homonym (mail, nice, cleave, set etc.); otherwise you'd have to try to ban all the others, too. | |||
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quote: No, "lesbian and gay". | |||
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quote: I don't think gays have ever been called after an island, have they? How about "Mullites", after the peninsula?¹ 1. Kintyre. Look at it here. It used, for many years, to be the arbiter of photographic decency. | |||
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| <Asa Lovejoy> |
No, "lesbian and gay". ------------------------------------- I never see it written that way around here, Bear. I suppose one might argue that because male homosexuals often act in a manner traditionally considered feminine, and female homosexuals are often masculine, "gay and lesbian" is tantamount to "ladies and gentlemen," thus recognising the traditional gender role, not the plumbing. | ||
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Gay has been around since the 14th century (1381 is the earliest date I found) and has had various meanings over the years. OED Online (1989 edition) definitions include “good”, “brilliant” “lively or prancing” (of a horse), “impertinent”, “carried high or erect” (of a dog’s tail). Definitions from the OED Online (1989 edition) include: A. adj. A 2a. Addicted to social pleasures and dissipations. Often euphemistically: Of loose or immoral life. Esp. in gay dog, a man given to revelling or self-indulgence (citations from 1637 to 1910) A 2b. Hence, in slang use, of a woman: Leading an immoral life, living by prostitution (1825 to1885). A 2c. Of a person: homosexual. Of a place: frequented by homosexuals. slang (quotes from 1935 to 1966). 4. slang (orig. U.S.). A homosexual, esp. a male homosexual (quotes from 1971 to 1985). Cf. A 2c above. And a June 2003 entry: C. n. [the adj. used absol.] slang (chiefly U.S.). Foolish, stupid, socially inappropriate or disapproved of; ‘lame’. The earliest quote for this meaning of the word was 1978. That's a new meaning to me! The OED Online is a subscription service (an expensive one). You may be able to access it for free from your home computer through your local library. I just log onto my library site, click on databases, then OED, then enter my library card number, and I'm in business. Wikipedia also has an entry on gay. On July 11, 2003, Wordnerd posted that urning specifically means a "homosexual man". Somehow, I can't see it catching on. I doubt that "gays and lesbians" will be replaced by "urnings and lesbians". I do see a limerick in it, if anyone wants to tackle it (he had a yearning for an urning). Tinman [This message was edited by tinman on Thu Oct 9th, 2003 at 20:44.] | |||
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Doesn't it seem as though we post a lot about the word "gay" on this site? I do think it is in close competition with the word "beer."  Back to lothario (by the way, he won!), Shufitz asked me this, and I think it is a great question: Why is it that words that mean "womanizer" or the like often start with "l"? Eg, lothario, libertine, lecherous, lewd, licentious, lascivious, lustful. | |||
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quote: Most of those words can be applied to women as well as men. Add libidinous and lubricious to your list. Tinman | |||
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quote:Perhaps. But, realistically, when using those words, we usually think of men, don't we? | |||
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"Lothario" is an eponym. The original Lothario was a character in Nicholas Rowe's 1703 play The Fair Penitent. Rowe (1674 - 1718) was famous for his "she-tragedies," the C18 theatrical equivalent of today's "weepie" movies. In the play, the heroine Calista is first seduced and then, inevitably, abandoned by the "gallant, gay Lothario". Calista, in keeping with the conventions of the genre, commits suicide, leaving "Lothario" to become a synonym for the sort of man best ignored by women. Similar eponyms are "Casanova" and "Don Juan". Since the word is formed from a male name, a lothario is, by definition, male. However, the other words beginning with the letter L can be applied to women as well as men.  [This message was edited by arnie on Fri Oct 10th, 2003 at 1:48.] | |||
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Oh, Arnie, I surely didn't know that! You and Tinman help to keep our board erudite! I do realize that those "l" words can be used for women; yet, I have often read about a "lewd and lascivious" man, but never a woman, for example. | |||
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quote: Wonder if that's related to "strumpet"? | |||
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quote: Yes. Isn't that sexist! Tinman | |||
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quote:I'd think more or less in the same way, but interestingly, if you google up "lewd woman," "lascivious woman," or "lewd and lascivious woman," you'll find quite a bit more hits than for the equivalent "man" phrases. I'd have thought the numbers would be very much the other way. | |||
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quote: From The OED Online (1989): lewd, a. 7. [Developed from 5.] Lascivious, unchaste. (The surviving sense.) 1712 ARBUTHNOT John Bull IV. i, He had been seen in the company of lewd women. 1883 OUIDA Wanda I. 296 A singer of lewd songs. (Male or female singer? "Lewd" applies to the song and, by implication, the singer.) [5. is an obsolete definition: Of persons, their actions, etc.: Bad, vile, evil, wicked, base; unprincipled, ill-conditioned; good-for-nothing, worthless, ‘naughty’. Obs.] Tinman | |||
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quote:I do hate to mention the Men versus Women thread, but if the thesaurus can be sexist, I guess I can, too. [Yes, yes, I know, Bob! The thesauruses rarely give true synonyms!] Shufitz, I am surprised that there are more citations for women than men with "lewd" and "lascivious". My experience has been the opposite in hearing those words used. | |||
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No, Kalleh, I'm not calling you sexist. I'm just saying those words have sexist overtones. Many people assume that when they hear someone using those words that they must be referring to a man. In reality, those words (except Lothario and usually libertine) can apply to women or even to songs, thoughts, glances, etc. Leer is another word that seems to be reserved for men and rarely is applied to women. That's okay. We have "l" words that are applied more to women than to men, as in the phrase, a person of loose morals". That's denotation vs. connotation. Tinman | |||
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There is a large organisation here in the US. It is called PFLAG which stands for Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays. That is the only word I have ever heard of male homosexuals referred to. Wish I had the guts to ask my gay boss though if there is another word. | |||
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Oh, I see what you're saying, Tinman.  quote:Morgan, have you heard gay men being called, "PFLAGs"? I sure haven't, though maybe I misunderstood you. | |||
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quote: I think it's time for a re-think. A mate of mine's a rugby forward and he's obviously not effeminate. Another is ex-Mossad commando. Yet another is retired from the SAS. Oh, they're all gay. I don't think they do limp-wristed. I think now that homosexuality (and now I'm using it in its biological meaning), at least on this side of the Atlantic, is a valid lifestyle there is no longer any necessity for lesbians and gay men (normally put that way around because gay men started the gay lib movement and lesbians tended to get left out) to advertise their sexuality by using stereotypes. | |||
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quote: One of the three mates I mentioned refers to himself as a faggot. Mind you, he's 6' 6" and he's quite tall, too | |||
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Is that why some gay men (I agree, not all do) use effeminate gestures? Advertising? I have always wondered about that. Yet, I don't think Lesbians do that nearly as much, though, I do agree, Asa, some women do. I wonder if there is a difference in the use of effeminate gestures in gay men between the U.S. and Europe. Probably not. | |||
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