You might want to alter your options to reflect "cans and/or bottles of beer" as opposed to "pints" since the more British term is never used with beer over here. Hard liquor, milk, and ice cream, yes, but the phrase "a pint of beer" sounds, to an American ear, as odd as "a square foot of comedy" or "three quarts of real estate."

Seeing as how all three Wordcrafters answering so far seem to be fairly dry, you could make the change without affecting the results.

There isn't a place for "I don't drink beer!"

Gimme some kind of reference point. I'm a metric kinda guy. Around here we commonly consume our beer in units of (believe it or not) 341 millilitres. Please don't ask me how THAT got started. How does it relate to a pint?

Yes, I agree. I had to figure that our bottles are usually, but not always, 12 ounces, and a pint is 16 ounces so it was a rather difficult task. I believe I underestimated because of it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Duncan Howell:
Gimme some kind of reference point. I'm a metric kinda guy. Around here we commonly consume our beer in units of (believe it or not) 341 millilitres. Please don't ask me how THAT got started. How does it relate to a pint?

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One US liquid pint equals 473.2 ml, according to the Interactive Units Converter. 341 ml. is about 0.72 pints.

Tinman

This is important, of course, since US pints are significantly smaller than UK pints in any case.

Maybe we should stick to metric? A UK pint is about 560 centilitres.

Richard English

Sheesh! He asks a simple question ...

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard English:
Maybe we should stick to metric?

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I'll agree to that! The USA should have switched to metric a long time ago. It's a much easier system to use, once you get the hang of it.

Tinman

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard English:
This is important, of course, since US pints are significantly smaller than UK pints in any case.

Maybe we should stick to metric? A UK pint is about 560 centilitres.

---

A UK pint (both liquid and dry) equals 1.2 US liquid pints or 1.032 US dry pints. I hadn't realized there were so many kinds of pints!

This web page (Interactive Units Converter) is easy to use. Just enter the known value, click "convert" and you will instantly receive the equivalent value in 74 different units of measure. For example, 1 UK pint (British Imperial Liquid And Dry) = 1.201 US liquid pt. = 1.032 US dry pt. = 0.586 l =5.683 dl = 56.83 cl = 568.3 ml = 5683 µl. See the beauty of the metric system? It's decimal. One UK pint is also equal to 0.924 vodkabottles (Old Russian Liquid Measure) = 4.178 quarts (Ancient Roman Liquid Measure) and so on. This site lists all the types of conversions the Interactive Units Converter can do.

Tinman

For me the name of that place would be purgatory!

Richard English

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard English:
For me the name of that place would be purgatory!

Richard English

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Actually the name of the place is Iran. I've been there and didn't have a drink for two whole weeks. Still, as there is absolutely nothing to do in the country after about eight pm and the TV was showing endless Islamic services and nothing else at the time it did mean that I got lots of sleep and lost alittle weight.

Actually I liked the place a lot. The people were friendly, the architecture was beautiful and the tea rooms plentiful.

No beer though RE, so maybe you shouldn't plan a trip there.

Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum

Read all about my travels around the world here.

You don't have to go all the way to Iran. Tyler, Texas is a dry town in a dry county in Texas. No alcohol allowed. Not even in your own Frigidaire!

quote:

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Originally posted by TrossL:
You don't have to go all the way to Iran. Tyler, Texas is a dry town in a dry county in Texas. No alcohol allowed. Not even in your own Frigidaire!

---

I once spent some time travelling round the US with a group of about ten people. Two of them were a couple of years younger than the rest (actually I was a couple of years older but never mind). Of course the legal drinking age in the (where it isn't completely illegal) is 21 rather than 18. This fact we avoided by the others buying the beer and sharing it with the two 18 and 17 year olds at the camp site. During the trip one of the girls turned eighteen. Unfortunately this corresponded with us camping in a dry county so that even this course of action wasn't open to us.
We were unaware of this and searched in vain to find some beer to celebrate. We could, we were told by the man at the gas station, buy some about eighty miles away where the law was different. The only "beer" available locally was guaranteed less than 0.1% alcohol.
As we drove away from the gas station we drove past a very large white building with the words GUNS'N'AMMO painted in thirty foot letters on the side. The irony of not being able to buy a beer but having such ready access to weapons did not escape us.
As a friend remarked at the time
"That's so people pissed off about not getting a beer can rob the gas station."

Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum

Read all about my travels around the world here.

Funny, Bob, and quite ironic. When I was in college at the University of Wisconsin, you could drink beer at age 18, but other liquor at 21. I found that ludicrous! Of course now you have to be 21 to drink any liquor, but those U of Wis. students still get drunk every weekend.

In Greece there's no drinking age. My 8-year-old could go to the grocery store and buy 10 bottles of beer without so much as a blink from the store owner. Funnily enough (or rather, probably very logically so) there's no teenage drinking problem here. It's not the forbidden fruit. I sometimes even let my kids have a sip of my beer or wine. (Oh horror!) In the US I would probably be put in jail for that.

I clearly remember my 18th birthday, back in the day when 18 was the legal drinking age in New York State. I went to the bowling alley and lounge where my folks were bowling and sat at the bar watching them. My dad yelled over to the bartender, "give my daughter a beer Bea. Today is her birthday!"

As Bea was pouring my whiskey, she asked how old I was. I proudly announced 18!

Her response? "Oh my God! I have been serving you for three years!"

Funny though, I drank like crazy before I could legally drink, and haven't had much to drink since.

I also found it quite amazing that my son was old enough to join the army and protect our country, yet wasn't old enough to get a beer or get a dog from the SPCA.

quote:

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I also found it quite amazing that my son was old enough to join the army and protect our country, yet wasn't old enough to get a beer or get a dog from the SPCA.

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The SPCA wouldn't serve your son a beer? Did he point out that he was of age in dog years which, considering the facility, should be what counts?

You've inspired me! I'm thinking of opening an SPCA with a two-drink minimum.

To encourage proper pet responsibility, I'll waive the entrance fee to anyone, two-legged or four-legged, who has been spayed or neutered.

Tuesdays will be "Fight Night." Boxers will get in free.

Wednesdays will be "Siamese Karioke Night." Twins will be invited to conjoin us in a few songs.

Thursdays will be "Labrador Night." Canadian beer half price.

Fridays will be "Shar-Pei Night." Free entrance to anyone 80 years or older.

Saturdays will be "Cathouse Night." Ask about our backroom specials.


Stop me, somebody!!

On "Three Dog Night" you'd feature music by that band, and serve half-priced drinks to the ugliest women.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by C J Strolin:
Wednesdays will be "Siamese Karioke Night."QUOTE]
It's "karaoke", not "karioke". It's bad enough that Americans can't pronounce it right. At least spell it right.

Tinman

"Karioke" is, yes, a misspelling. My bad.

Yet it is a more accurate representation of the common pronunciation of that word that the correct version. I predict that "karioke" will fight its way into even the OED within a few years, assuming the fad doesn't die out.


Addendum to my SPCA:

EVERY night is Good Speller's Night. Winner of a nightly spelling test gets his/her drinks on the house and a free rickshaw ride home pulled by the loser. HA!


Sidenote: "Rickshaw" is the secondary accepted spelling of "ricksha" which, itself, is short for the proper name "jinricksha." I feel obligated to add this P.S. to this post before Tinman does so for me! Again, HA!

Unless it's Real Ale (Goose Island will be quite acceptable) I'm not interested!

Richard English

Sorry, I will only drink Hog's Back T.E.A. now!

I like them both although T.E.A. is a little cheaper here (as it should be).

I pay about £1.70 ($2.78) for 500Cl (about a US pint) of T.E.A. and a little more than that for Goose Island IPA. How does that compare with US prices?

Richard English

500Cl???

Well, I don't know how your dollars compare to ours, but my Hog's Back T.E.A. was $4.59 for a pint, and a 6-pack of 12-ounces of Goose Island IPA was $6.99. Funny--I see no comparison at all between the Goose Island and the Hog's Back. The latter beer is so smooth that it really reminds me of a fine wine. While, yes, I like the Goose Island, it just tastes second-rate to me.

It is a fact that different countries use different measures; it is also a fact that the metric system is now agreed as the universal standard. That the USA and Canada have so far refused to introduce it doesn't alter the fact, neither does it alter the fact that those of us who were brought up with the "old" measures will probably continue to use them to our dying day.

In the UK it is now illegal for pre-packaged foodtuffs to be sold in Imperial measures only; the metric equivalent must be shown. The exception is draught beer which is still sold in Imperial pints (one imperial pint equals 1.201 US liquid pints)

However, to help I did say in my posting that 500CL is roughly equivalent to one US liquid pint.

For those who feel the need for a more precise equivalent there are plenty of coverters on the Web - I use http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/.

Richard English

The dollars I quoted are yours; we don't use dollars, we use pounds sterling - I showed the US dollar equivalent to help you compare.

a six-pack of Goose Island is equal to 3.747 Imperial pints, which means it costs just over 2 dollars for an Imperial Pint - cheaper than here where I pay the equivalent of about 3 US dollars.

The T.E.A. is far more expensive in the US at $4.59; as I said, I pay the equivalent of $2.78.

So far as taste is concerned it is, of course, a very personal thing. I preferred the Goose Island IPA to the Honkers and felt that the IPA was certainly as good as the T.E.A. However, the IPA is more bitter and that doesn't appeal to everybody.

Richard English

Richard: I know that you said that 500Cl is roughly equivalent to one U.S liquid pint. I framed my question wrong. I asked:...500Cl?...
I should have asked...Cl?... Never heard of Cls. Incidentally, we Canadians tossed out the Imperial system about 30 years ago in favour of Metric. (Exception: we still calculate lumber in board feet - don't know why.) I believe the Americans are really the last non-metric hold-outs.

Actually, I believe that Myanmar (formally Burma) is the only other holdout in this regard. Why the U.S. clings to the old "3.7 hogsheads to the furlong" system that bedevils us so terribly, I have not a clue.

It would make just about as much sense for us to cling to the system of Roman Numerals (ever try simple multiplication using them?) over the Arabic numerals we all so sensibly use but there you have it.

I agree that we should use the metric system. There was an initiative to this effect in the schools some years ago, but obviously it failed. Perhaps it is just too ingrained. How do you change an entire country of hundreds of millions of people? I also wish our schools required 2 languages to be taught, and I wish that they would do a much better job of teaching about other countries and cultures. We seem to be an island onto ourselves, metaphorically speaking.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I agree that we should use the metric system. There was an initiative to this effect in the schools some years ago, but obviously it failed. Perhaps it is just too ingrained. How do you change an entire country of hundreds of millions of people? I also wish our schools _required_ 2 languages to be taught, and I wish that they would do a much better job of teaching about other countries and cultures. We seem to be an island onto ourselves, metaphorically speaking.

---

Well we don't have hundreds of millions of people but over here not only did we change our entire system of units but we also changed our currency and will almost certainly make an even more radical change to it when the pro-Europeans get their way* and we adopt the Euro.

It is actually an offence now in England for shops to sell their goods using Imperial rather than metric units so that people have been prosecuted for daring to sell apples by the pound.
A few things have managed to resist the change - beer by the pint (if I can be forgiven for mentioning beer yet again) is still OK but I doubt that even that wil survive for very long.

*I think the phrasing of that sentence probably made it clear that I'm anti-European - at least in the sense of not wanting to be any more closely tied to the place - but I accept that it's more or less inevitable now. My chief objection is that the pro-Europeans never come clean about their real objective of wanting a Federal Europe - a kind of US of E for want of a better term. They always say this isn't part of their agenda when it's pretty obvious that with the amount of control already surrendered to Brussels the adoption of a single Europe wide currency can really only be a step to complete European integration.

Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum

Read all about my travels around the world here.

As an outside (Canadian) observer, I don't feel that the U.S.A. will ever convert to the metric system. Here's why. The U.S.A. is so big and so self-sufficient that it is almost a world unto itself. It is the only nation on the planet that can ignore the metric system, and therefore it will ignore it.
As a professional handyman, I offer this allusion to illustrate my point: The most popular screw (wood or metal) in the U.S. is the Phillips screw. It has a cross-shaped indentation on the head. It will not stay on the end of a screwdriver of its own accord and is, therefore, a pain in the ass. In Canada, the most popular screw is the Robertson screw. It has a square recess in the head and it will stay on a screwdriver. The R. screw is vastly superior to the P. screw but the Americans are tooled up in their factories to use the P. screw. I don't know how much money it would take to re-tool all the shops in America, but it's a moot point. It ain't gonna happen. Same thing with metric conversion. (In my humble opinion.)

I remember back in elementary school, the teachers telling us that we would be switching to the metric system. We never did. This is back when I was around 10 years old or so and I am 43 now. I agree with Duncan...ain't gonna happen!

Firstly, centilitres are a standard metric subdivision. a centilitre is one hundredth of a litre so 50 of them is half a litre. It would have been also correct to have said 500 mililitres.

The USA has changed to metric measures so far as science and research is concerned and eventually I feel sure that the same will happen in ordinary life. It is happening in the UK and the device used is a simple one. Schools no longer teach Imperial measures and so the newer generations grow up using metri. Within a hundred years Imperial will be just a footnote in history.

Once the USA adopts the same policy (and it will) then the same thing will happen.

Of course, this doesn't mean that adults will change their ideas and ways of thinking. That rarely happens and, providing you change the children's ideas, it doesn't need to.

Have a look at the conversion site I mentioned if you need convincing of the stupidity of having so many different systems in use.

By the way, who remembers the case of the airliner that ran out of fuel because the tanker operator put in litres and the captain assumed he was getting gallons (whether US or Imperial gallons I know not)?

Richard English

I also wish our schools required 2 languages to be taught,
----------------------------
They Do, Kalleh; the second language is English! Just go to your local grocery store and listen!!!


Now, as for Duncan's and Beth's assertion that the USA will never go metric I say piffle, hogwash, and humbug! We already ARE metric. Kalleh, when was the last time you gave somebody a pint of Ringer's? Beth, have you bought a bottle of any liquid within the last twenty years that didn't say "One Liquid quart/.946liters?" Duncan, just try to find an inch-sized bolt on a new Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, etc. Remember the big screw-up at NASA three yers ago when they lost a Mars probe because NASA programmed it in English units, but the US Aerospace company that built it included softwear in metric units? We have gone metric, but we just haven't realized it yet.

OK, Asa's off the soapbox, you can cart him back to the home now

Richard... On Feb.6 and Feb. 7 you said that 500Cl was about a US pint. Since I wasn't familiar with centilitres, I took your advice and went to the conversion website that you recommended. They say that 500Cl is 10.57 US pints. I'm only interested in this because, around here, we use only millilitres for small liquid measure and it seems to me that introducing centilitres too (regardless of their honourable provenance) would get us on the slippery slope that leads to the ridiculous situation we had with the multifarious Imperial system.
Also...Yes, I do remember the plane that landed with no fuel. I remember that it was an Air Canada flight out of Montreal bound for the west coast and it had to put down on a racetrack in Gimli, Manitoba. Canada converted a bit at a time and I think things would have gone smoother if we had done it "cold turkey". The problem with the airplane and the Mars probe were caused by trying to operate with two systems simultaneously.

Time for me to throw my two cents in here. Hey, that's metric!

LadyBeth, you and I went to school together, we just didn't know it back then. I, too, remember being told that the US would be converting to metric soon, and was absolutely astounded when Canada beat us to it! I see a lot of metric in the US, such as metric equivalents on items we purchase. But I agree there would have to be an awful lot of retooling to make the complete conversion.

For instance, you would no longer buy a 10 ounce (283 gram) can of mixed nuts. I'm sure it would either be changed to a 300 gram can of nuts or be reduced to a 250 gram can (and the price stay the same, of course!)

You can now buy pop (soda, soft drink, whatever!) in 12 ounce cans, 24 ounce bottles, or one or two litre bottles.

Like you guys said. The US has converted, it just doesn't know it yet!

Back when I was a computer contractor I came across a situation in a carpet company where carpet was sold by the metre, from rolls which were ten feet wide, to cover rooms measured by the square yard.

Scrap was sold by the kilogram.

A ridiculous situation of course but it did make plenty of work for the computer programmers.

Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum

Read all about my travels around the world here.

If I wrote that I must have held the zero key down too long. I meant 50 cl - which is 500 ml or 5dl or .5l. and each is 1.057 US liquid pints.

It should't be a problem any more than it's a problem when we say that something is a yard long, or 3 feet long of 36 inches long. Just remember to change the unit!

Richard English

If you always order by the pint, do you even know the song...sing it with me folks....


"Ninety-nine bottles of beer on the wall...."

I went out tonight on a beer wild goose search. Having been to all the local liquer stores I came up empty on Goose Island or Hog's Back. They even did a computer search at the largest one. The explanation they gave is that it's illegal in Georgia to sell beer with alcohol content over 5.9%. So, if that is the case for those two, then I won't be able to get them in this state. I did however find the Fullers 1845 and some very wild labeled ones from Wytchwood Brewery called Scarecrow, Fiddler's Elbow and Hobgoblin. I found the Scarecrow kind of blah. I really liked the Fiddler's Elbow, and the Hobgoblin was okay too. None reminded me of a fine wine though. After the 3 aforementioned brews I cannot attempt the Fullers tonight, maybe tomorrow.
I'm feeling fine....

I actually considered going out and buying some beer to test. The problem is, in New York State, beer is sold in the grocery store, in the dairy aisle usually at the end of the cold case next to the milk. Somehow, I don't think I am going to find much other than Budweiser and other wonderful shtuff there! And I can just see the look on the manager's face when I ask him to get one bottle of this, and one bottle of that in for me to taste test! Yeah! Right!

TrossL, are you pulling our collective legs? You found a Fuller's 1845 in the store??? I am still waiting for mine to come in (over a week now). And, if I recall Richard's comments about this (after all, he writes about beer so infrequently that I am not sure ), Fuller's 1845 is a very strong beer, though I have no idea of the alcohol content. I also believe my beer book last night said that it was a stronger beer.

This thread has rather gotten away from me. However, was it you, Duncan, who said that phillips screws were more common in the U.S.? I don't use screws much, but I thought those screws with the straight line (no idea what they're called) are the most common. Certainly those screwdrivers (straight edge, rather than "philliped") are more common, right?

quote:

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Originally posted by C J Strolin:
"Karioke" is, yes, a misspelling. My bad.

Yet it is a more accurate representation of the common pronunciation of that word that the correct version. I predict that "karioke" will fight its way into even the OED within a few years, assuming the fad doesn't die out.

---

Sad to say, you're right. That is probably the most common American pronunciation, and someday it may be listed in the dictionary as a "variant" spelling. The AHD already lists that pronunciation, not even giving the Japanese pronounciation. We Americans have a habit of absorbing words from other languages, often changing the pronunciation, spelling, and even the meaning. Other countries do the same. That's "progress".

quote:

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"Rickshaw" is the secondary accepted spelling of "ricksha" which, itself, is short for the proper name "jinricksha." I feel obligated to add this P.S. to this post before Tinman does so for me! Again, HA!

---

Thanks for the lesson. I thought "rickshaw" was the only spelling.

Tinman

Wychwood is a newish brewery in the famous blanket town of Whitney, Oxfordshire. Their bottled beers are not bottle-conditioned over here. I have drunk the Hobgoblin and it's not too bad although I found it a bit thin for its strength (4.5% abv).

Fuller's 1845 is 6.3% abv and is bottle-conditioned over here. Either they've made a special brew for Georgia (unlikely) or it slipped through the net and is being sold illegaly!

Beer and Ale are now interchangeable terms in the UK although originally Ale was unhopped and beer hopped. The distiction no longer applies and you can use whichever term you wish here.

There are many different kinds of screwdriver, all with their advantages and disadvantages. The "normal" kind is the slot-head and it's fine when it's being used by hand. However, "machine" screws like Philips and Pozidrive have the advantage that their drivers self centre and thus are easier to use with mechanical systems. Pozidrive and Philips look similar but are not the same. Pozidrive has a self-holding device.

Richard English

Okay, here I sit with the Fullers 1845 in my hand comparing it to the Wytchwood Brewery ones. The Fullers does NOT list the alcohol content on its label or anywhere on the bottle so that may be how it has slipped through. The others do list it, although on the Hobgoblin it lists 5.5% ale.

It would seem that Fuller's have used a different label for the USA. The 1845 that I am drinking this very moment clearly shows, at the bottom of the label, "Alc. 6.3 Vol". It also shows, immediately above that statement, "Bottle conditioned for the taste of Real Ale"

I just hope they haven't used a different beer as Wychwodd seem to have done with Hobgoblin. It's definitely 4.5 abv here.

Richard English

This Fullers 1845 does say it is bottle conditioned also. Not to sound stupid (too late), what does that mean?

TrossL, I am so jealous that you have found the Fuller's before I have. However, I will be in Georgia in a few weeks, and I will definitely look for it. How does it taste to you?

As far as screws and screwdrivers, I am just genuinely confused that Duncan says phillips screws are more common in the U.S. At least wherever I have been here, the "slot-head" type is far more popular. Duncan, am I missing something?