I was just reading through the preface of my old Methodist hymnal. There is a quote there called "Directions for Singing" written by John Wesley in 1761 for his preface to _Sacred Melody_.

IV. Sing lustily and with a good courage. Beware of singing as if you were half dead, or half asleep; but lift up your voice with strength. Be no more afraid of your voice now, nor more ashamed of its being heard, than when you sung the songs of Satan.

Around here, the word lust has come to mean primarily sexual desire. Is that the case elsewhere, too? Wesley surely didn't mean that, as is shown by the context. When did the meaning of the word narrow?

My dictionary gives the following for lusty:

quote:

1. full of or characterized by healthy vigor.
2. hearty, as a meal.
3. spirited; enthusiastic.
4. lustful; lecherous.

Note the order! If the word lust has come to mean primarily sexual desire around you, maybe that says something about you?

To me, the word lust invites vowel play, as in (in listing the Seven Deadly Sins) "Let's list lust last lest lust be lost.

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maybe that says something about you? Wink

Hmm - are you implying I inspire or I wallow?

I misread that last comment CW the first time I looked at it!!

However, to answer your question on the development of the word I have once again turned to my trusted dictionary. There is some variation but they are certainly a variation on a theme. The first reference I can find is in 1526 when it referred to 'sexual desire'. By 1530 it was a rather broader term as 'To have a strong, excessive or inordinate desire'. In 1607 it was also a general term defined as 'Pleasure, delight; also a source of pleasure' and in 1627 it was 'Desire, appetite, relish or inclination for something'. In 1677 it was seen in a very positive light as 'good pleasure' but in the next few years took a rather more surpising turn. In 1678 it was 'Overmastering desire (esp. of battle)'. Does this mean rape on the battlefield I wonder! Finally, in 1682, it was defined as 'Vigour, lustiness; fertility (of soil)'.

I can only assume that the reference to soil didn't really catch on as I certainly also associate it primarily with sex. Perhaps that says something about me too

Jerry, that sentence is just great! Did you write it or find it?

Every time Doad talks about his "trusted dictionary" that goes all the way back to the 1500s, I get jealous!

For some reason, and I don't know why, I think of "lust" and "lustful" with sexual desire, but "lustily" as healthy vigor.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think "lust," though spelled "lyst," means "joy" or "fun" or "play" in Swedish. Sure seems fitting, Ja?

Lets list lust last lest lust be lost.

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Jerry, that sentence is just great! Did you write it or find it?

I wrote it, thanks for asking, Kalleh

quote:

Originally posted by Doad:
However, to answer your question on the development of the word I have once again turned to my trusted dictionary. There is some variation but they are certainly a variation on a theme. The first reference I can find is in 1526 when it referred to 'sexual desire'. By 1530 it was a rather broader term as 'To have a strong, excessive or inordinate desire'. In 1607 it was also a general term defined as 'Pleasure, delight; also a source of pleasure' and in 1627 it was 'Desire, appetite, relish or inclination for something'. In 1677 it was seen in a very positive light as 'good pleasure' but in the next few years took a rather more surpising turn. In 1678 it was 'Overmastering desire (esp. of battle)'. Does this mean rape on the battlefield I wonder! Finally, in 1682, it was defined as 'Vigour, lustiness; fertility (of soil)'.

Doad, you obviously looked at OED, so I did the same, using the on-line version. It has more data, which suggest a different way to categorize the meanings you note.

Four related meanings coexisted in the earliest period; it wasn't a clear sequence of one leading to another. For each of them OED gives cites going back to around the year 950. Simplifying a bit (and notice that the first two meanings, now obsolete, were not pejorative or negative):

• pleasure, delight; or a source thereof (cites from 888 to 1607, ending with Shakespeare: "Gazing vppon the Greekes with little lust.")
• desire, appetite, inclination toward (cites from 950, ending 1677)
• appetite or desire that is sensuous and sinful (not necessarily sexual) (cites from 1000)
• sexual appetite (implying strong reprobation); degrading animal passion. (cites from 1000)

The additional senses you note seem to be later developments. "Vigour, fertility (of soil)," now obsolete, is from 1398; "lawless and passionate desire" (e.g., lust for battle) is from 1679.

Interestingly, things seem to be somewhat different for the word CW originally mentioned, lusty. But it's late; more on that tomorrow.

Never let it be said that I leave a job half completed.

LUSTY

1610 - Pleasing, pleasant. Of persons: Gaily dressed
1621 - Joyful, merry; lively
1657 - Full of desire
1669 - Of a ship: sailing well
1672 - Of actions: Vigorous. Of a meal etc. : Hearty, abundant
1674 - Insolent, arrogant, self-confident
1692 - Stong, powerful
1697 - Full of sexual desire; lustful
1772 - Of persons: Massively built. Hence corpulent, fat
1842 - Massive, substantial, large

The 1697 definition seems the one that CW most readily associates with the word whereas John Wesley seems to be thinking of either 1621, 1672 or 1692. Does this tell us something of the way their respective minds work?

I also quite like the 1772 version, which I hadn't come across before. If I was of a larger build I think I'd quite like to be called a 'lusty' person as opposed to some of the other expressions that can be cruelly used.

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Originally posted by jerry thomas:
Lets list lust last lest lust be lost.

quote:

Jerry, that sentence is just great! Did you write it or find it?

I wrote it, thanks for asking, Kalleh

Hmmm. I definitely recall seeing this a long time before I was ever associated with this board.

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