One more Tom Jones post.

Apparently the word 'neck' used to have a different meaning: the upper chest, or the upper part of the bosom. (In other words, the part that's exposed by a low scooped neckline.) So say the explanatory notes with reference to this passage in Tom Jones (1749), in which an old prude speaks:

"I saw two farmers' daughters at church, the other day, with bare necks. I protest hey shocked me. If wenches will hang out lures for fellows, it is no matter what they suffer. I detest such creatures ..."

Can anyone confirm this meaning?

I've always found it amusing that, at times in our history, it's been deemed inappropriate for a lady to show her ankles, but her cleavage can be put on display! Yes, it would seem in this case that upper chest is meant, rather than the literal neck.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caterwauller:
Yes, it would seem in this case that upper chest is meant, rather than the literal neck.

---

No, I think it refers to the neck. I don't think neck ever referred to the chest. Rather, I think that at one time it was considered indecent for a woman to expose her neck.

The OED Online says:

quote:

---

Originally: the back portion of the part of the body between the head and the shoulders; the nape. Later: the whole of this part of the body; the part connecting the head with the rest of the body.
The original meaning is now commonly expressed by the back (also nape) of the neck.

---

And I found this quote (fourth paragraph under "History"):

quote:

---

In 1907 the swimmer Annette Kellerman from Australia visited the United States as an "underwater ballerina", a version of synchronized swimming, diving into glass tanks. She was arrested for indecent exposure, as her swimsuit showed arms, legs and the neck. Kellerman changed the suit to have long arms and legs, and a collar, still keeping the close fit revealing the shapes underneath. She later starred in several movies, including one about her life

---

Tinman

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman,

I think Tinman may be right, though I didn't have time to go through all 26,600,000 "neck" sites listed in Google! Remember, old-fashioned women's clothing did have high necks.

OK - so how did neck evolve into a verb?

Awww, come on, CW...even I, the stodgy literalist, can figure that one out!

Thinking back over a lot of years I seem to recall that necking was the name we lads gave to what one might call the secondary stage of courtship. Why I cannot suggest, since our attention was certainly not focussed upon our intended's neck.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Richard English,

Our word (from the French) décolletage means "having a low neckline". Fashionable ladies in Fielding's time would often wear dresses with pretty extreme décolletage, and I can see how the more prudish could transfer from the neckline to the neck itself, especially as I doubt that they would want to refer to the body parts exposed by the décolletage by name.

Why I cannot suggest, since our attention was certainly not focussed upon our intended's neck.

Well, I imagine at first the focus is on the upper level of the body...

I have always thought the Americanism of getting to first base, second base, third base, and finally hitting a homerun...was a stupid one!

I always thought the baseball analogy was interesting, but I kept hearing different definitions of what each "base" really was.

I wonder if that analogy is where we also get the term "hitting on" someone.

But back to the neck thing . . . if the neck really meant more than just the part that holds up the head, maybe necking really means (or meant) more than just kissing?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalleh: Remember, old-fashioned women's clothing did have high necks.

---

Only during some periods, hon. Styles changed, as they do today.

Tom Jones was written in 1749. Here's an illustration of women's clothing from that period, albeit in the colonies.

The Empire style (in France, cf. the Regency style in England) also favored loose fitting gowns that were low cut.

I've been to reenactments of early American periods where women have shown so much decolletage as to be nearly pornographic. One particularly memorable costume, the lady had such an ample . . . er . . . endowment, and her stays were so well constructed that she bragged she could hold a full beer stein on her chest without even leaning back . . . like a shelf. We were all duly impressed when she succeeded. I've tried to find a good pic but have, as yet, been unsuccessful.

So whence came the expression, "neck of the woods," or, as I call it, "sylvan cervix?"

Okay, sorry, guys. Wrong again!

I should have done my research!

"Neck" can also mean "audacity", especially in "brass neck". Interesting that other body parts can be used as synonyms, such as "cheek" and "nerve". "Lip" can also be used in some cases for a similar effect.

I was just typing out that I didn't think I'd ever heard neck used that way, Arnie, when I remembered "stiff necked". I've not heard brass neck, but here, we might say someone is stiff-necked if they are slow to accept change.

We also have "rubber-necking" on the freeways when there is an accident.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalleh: I should have done my research [on decolletage]!

---

No problem Kallah. My familiarity comes from many years spent looking into the subject.

quote:

---

My familiarity comes from many years spent looking into the subject.

---

And have you found mounds of information while keeping abreast of this subject? (And no tittering in the background, ladies!)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard English:
Thinking back over a lot of years I seem to recall that necking was the name we lads gave to what one might call the secondary stage of courtship. Why I cannot suggest, since our attention was certainly not focussed upon our intended's neck.

---

I violated my self-imposed ban on looking anything up because of a niggling, nagging suspicion: The Latin word, "NECTARE," from which we get "nexus," means "to bind, or to link." So, following your reasoning, RE, "necking" is a seque from secondary to tertiary "binding" activity!

tertiary binding activity?

brb - must stop laughing - can't type