My logophile friend tells me that "canoe" has a Caribbean origin, while "cheemaun" was the word the North American Indians used. I've surely not heard of "cheemaun," have you? It doesn't even appear in Onelook, though you can find it in Google. I wonder why the word of Caribbean origin stuck, while the North American word isn't even cited in dictionaries.

I've not heard of it either. I'm reminded of a similar craft, the kayak, however. As I understand it, "Kayak" is an Aleut palindrome because both ends look the same. It means "Which end is which?" The female, and more sensible Aleut vessel, the umiak, doesn't look the same, and means, "This end first, stupid!"

Cheemaun is an Ojibwe word that corresponds to our prototypical canoe (of birch or cedar construction). Our word canoe comes via Spanish (with some interference from French) from Carib. It originally referred to a dugout canoe made from a partially hollowed out tree trunk. If you search on cheemaun in Google you'll find plenty of sites, especially mentioning a large car ferry. The OED entry suggests that it went from signifying one type of primitive boat to another.

ON what Native Americans called canoes, I'm sure that non-Ojibwes had all kinds of words that were not borrowed into English.

Interesting, jheem.

BTW, on a completely different subject, what how do wordcrafters pronounce "Caribbean?" I have been told I pronounce it wrong; I say, "Car i be an."

Ah, you pronounce it the English way. You hang around with us too much.

Don't you all say something like Cur Rib Ian, while we say Carrie Be An

I say either /,k{r@'bij@n/ or /k@'rIbij@n/ depending on whom I wish to irk.

Graham, everyone else here in the states seems to say it your first way. I am not sure how I came to say it the second way, but perhaps Bob is right!

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
... everyone else here in the states ...

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Wow, you sure know a lot of people!

I think the way a person pronounces "Caribbean" is influenced a lot by locality and time. I learned to pronounce it "Cair uh be an" (accents on the "Cair" and "be") first and only later learned "Ca rib be an" (accent on the "rib"). The first pronunciation was doubtless influenced by my first seven years in Kansas. I first heard the second pronunciation, I think, after I moved to Washington, where I had a different set of people, including teachers, influencing me. I still had a Midwestern and Southern influence from a dad from Kansas and a mother from Louisiana (CJ: six vowels, three consonants!), plus relatives (especially my mother's six sisters and their families). Plus the area in Washington where I was raised was rural to semi-rural (it's definitely urban, now).

The Hutchison Encyclopaedia agrees with your assessment, Kalleh:

Caribbean
When British people talk about the Caribbean the word is usually pronounced [carry-bee-yun] but in expressions such as Caribbean island the main stress shifts back on to the first syllable. A few speakers always pronounce the word [k' rib-ian]. The US pronunciation is [ke-rib-ian].
Spelling: remember the single r and double b.

Wikipedia notes that both pronunciations are used in "Pirates of the Caribbean":

Caribbean - (1) [k{r.@."bi.@n] (2) [k@."rI.bi.@n]
Most dictionaries list both pronunciations as acceptable. The Disneyland ride (and related entertainment offerings) "Pirates of the Caribbean" is pronounced with (1). It is sometimes suggested to use (1) for the noun (as in Pirates of the Caribbean) and (2) for the adjective (a Caribbean island), but there is no etymological reason to support such a distinction.

M-W Online gives both pronunciations:

Main Entry: Ca.rib.be.an
Pronunciation: "kar-&-'bE-&n, k&-'ri-bE-&n
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin Caribbaeus, from Caribes
: of or relating to the Caribs , the eastern and southern West Indies, or the Caribbean Sea

The definition "Of or relating to the Caribs ..." (Carib is pronunced 'kar-&b)
seems to support the pronunciation "kar-&-'bE-&n" as the preferred pronunciation.

In short, there is no one "correct" pronunciation of "Caribbean".

I ran across this article titled Vulgar Pronunciation from H.L.Mencken's The American Language which I think you might find interesting. Note that it was published in 1921. There have been a few changes since then.

Tinman

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman,

Wow, you sure know a lot of people!
Sorry, Tinman, that did sound rather arrogant, now didn't it?

That Vulger Pronunciation site was great. Thanks!

There are 2 ways in which the word is pronounced. The British and the American pronounciations. I guess the right way is the way the people in the Caribbean pronounce it, with a stress on the RIB, slightly like the American pronounciation.

Ka-RIB-be-an.

Can anyone give me a link to a site that has an etymology of the word Caribbean (checked W-B online). I've been getting different stories about the origin of the word.

Thank you

This message has been edited. Last edited by: islanspicee,

Welcome to wordcraft!

The OED says this: "[a. Sp. caribe: see CANNIBAL1.] " for the etymology, and then it says this for cannibal: " 1. A man (esp. a savage) that eats human flesh; a man-eater, an anthropophagite. Originally proper name of the man-eating Caribs of the Antilles."

Not exactly warm and fuzzy! I couldn't find it it etymology.com

thanks Kellah

I found the etymology on the word cannibal too but nothing very specific for Caribbean.

(oh and Columbus is to be blamed for that false description of the indigenous peoples of the Caribbean)

I was surprised, but I couldn't find anything specific either. I thought the OED would be the best source, but it just referred me to Carib.

The OED says that Caribbean is an adjective, meaning pertaining to the Caribs of South and Central America and the West Indies, their culture or language.

Here is the whole citation for Carib in the OED:

"[a. Sp. caribe: see CANNIBAL1.]

A. n. One of the native race which occupied the southern islands of the West Indies at their discovery: in earlier times often used with the connotation of cannibal.

1555 EDEN Decades W. Ind. I. I. (Arb.) 66 The wylde and myscheuous people called Canibales or Caribes, whiche were accustomed to eate mannes flesche. 1578 T. N. tr. Conq. W. India 4 Others..looking for death, and to be eaten of the Cariues. 1602 Metamorph. Tabacco (Collier) 10 Which at the Caribes banquet gouern'st all, And gently rul'st the sturdiest Caniball. 1876 BANCROFT Hist. U.S. VI. xlii. 259 The oppressed and enslaved Caribs.
B. adj. Of or pertaining to the Caribs of South and Central America and the West Indies, their culture or language. Cf. CARIBBEAN a.

1881 Encycl. Brit. XII. 828/2 In British Guiana the Carib tribes are the Ackawais and Caribisi of the coast and foreign regions, the Arecumas and Macusis of the savannah region. 1933 L. BLOOMFIELD Language iv. 73 In South America, we note..the Arawak and Carib families, which once prevailed in the West Indies. 1951 W. FAULKNER Requiem for Nun 37 It was said..that the man slept at night in a kind of pit at the site of the chateau he was planning, tied wrist to wrist with one of his captor's Carib slaves. 1970 S. SELVON Plains of Caroni i. 9 It [sc. the river] might have sung some primitive Carib tune. 1984 Lang. & Communication IV. II. 93 Their motivation for attending the düg is different (curiosity, boredom, a desire to learn about Carib culture).
Hence Caribal a. (after cannibal); Caribbean a. and n., applied to certain of the West Indian isles, and to the sea between them and the mainland; Caribee (= CARIB).

1849 CARLYLE Disc. Nigger Question 37 Under the incompetent Caribal (what we call ‘Cannibal’) possessors. 1719 DE FOE Crusoe (1858) 319 Their battles with the Caribbeans. Ibid. (1858) 320 How 300 Caribbees came and invaded them. 1777 ROBERTSON Hist. Amer. (1783) II. 449 A Caribbean canoe. Ibid. II. 450 The Caribbees still use two distinct languages."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

Thanks kellah

You've been very helpful

much love
from the caribbean
Samantha

In Ohio, where I grew up, New York, where I used to live, and Pennsylvania, where I live now, I've always heard the word pronounced care-uh-BEE-an. That is how I've always pronounced it and I think of it as the American pronunciation. I've always thought of the care-RIB-ee-an pronunciation as being British, so I'm surprised to read that the way I say it, and the way I've always heard everyone else around me pronouncing it, is considered British!

Wordmatic

Sry, I guess I must have it switched in my head then.

Well, we have some Brits here...which is it, guys? In the Chicago area we say care-RIB-ee-an.

quote:

Well, we have some Brits here...which is it, guys? In the Chicago area we say care-RIB-ee-an.

That's what I would call the American pronunciation. We would usually say CarihBEEyan