From the press; I find this particularly interesting:

… many primitive peoples … keep the record of their herds and armies by means of notches cut in a tree or pebbles gathered in a pile. That our own ancestors were adept in such methods is evidenced by the etymology of the words tally and calculate, of which the first comes from the Latin talea, cutting, and the second from the Latin calculus, pebble.

Daylight come and me wanna go
Day me say day me say day Me say day me say day o
Daylight come and me wanna gohome
work all night and a drink a rum
(daylight come and me wanna go home)
Stack banana till the mornin come
(daylight come and me wanna go home)
Come mister tally man tally me bananas
(daylight come and me wanna go home)

Harry Belafonte

Many people in the States think that Britain is a homogeneous country with a few variations for Scots, Irish and Welsh, but there can be wide variations in dialect even within a few square miles, especially in places like the Yorkshire Dales (in the north east of England) or the Lake District (in the north west) where the countryside is rugged, the winters are harsh and travelling around the area was extremely difficult until the coming of the railways towards the end of the 19th century.

This variation is evident in the different ways of sheep counting to be found in those regions. The north east of England still has strong Scandinavian roots (evidenced by place names and the Germanic forms to be found in the Northumberland dialect) because of all the centuries of Viking, Norse and Danish incursions until our final invasion by William the Conqueror in 1066 put a stop to them.

You can see both the similarities and the variations in this chart of sheep-counting terms.

This is from further over to the west than the previous examples and also covers parts of Scotland and Wales.

This is a map of Britain, which shows the places mentioned in the other links.

Wow, they reminds me of many a diagram straight out of a linguistics text. Find which languages are related, and at what point they split off from a common language. It appears on the surface that the shephards kept the old system of counting while all other forms adapted to the change of the language.

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Many people in the States think that Britain is a homogeneous country with a few variations for Scots, Irish and Welsh, but there can be wide variations in dialect even within a few square miles,

That's interesting, Di. The U.S. is surely heterogenous, but those variations in dialect don't exist here.

I checked out the etymology of "mathematics," and that doesn't fit. However, I loved one of the etymological descriptions: "to have one's mind aroused." What a great analogy!

Silly, I know, but Yan, Tan, Tethera reminds me of delicious cream teas! It was (still is for all I know) the name of a teashop in Keswick, Lake District.

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Originally posted by arnie:
Silly, I know, but Yan, Tan, Tethera reminds me of delicious cream teas! It was (still is for all I know) the name of a teashop in Keswick, Lake District.

I love the Lake District. My ex husband was (and I suppose still is) a keen hiker. Not a rambler, but the sort who takes a map and compass and strikes out over the Yorkshire Moors for 30 miles or so.

We spent a week back in Keswick in the early 80s camping on the edge of Derwentwater and climbing all the hills in the area, including Skiddaw. I was a good deal fitter in those days than I am now!

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I was a good deal fitter in those days than I am now!

Ditto.

In the 70s and early 80s I would spend at least one holiday in the Lake District every year, walking for miles over the tops. Nowadays I'm puffed out after a walk round the corner to the shops!

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Originally posted by arnie:

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I was a good deal fitter in those days than I am now!

Ditto.

In the 70s and early 80s I would spend at least one holiday in the Lake District every year, walking for miles over the tops. Nowadays I'm puffed out after a walk round the corner to the shops!

Same here . I was fitter than several of my friends who were half my age until I had a couple of accidents within a few months of each other in 2000/01. I had a fall at work in late November 2000 and had problems with my back, neck and right arm. I was due to have physiotherapy in the New Year. Easter was in March in 2001 and on Easter Monday I twisted at an awkward angle and a shooting pain stabbed into my back. I was due for a physio appointment on the following day, so I caught two buses to my local hospital and staggered into the Physio department - with tears streaming down my face because of the pain. The physiotherapist examined me, told me that I'd slipped a disc and put me on traction. From then on, I've had a lot of problems and I had to give up work in 2001.

I'm 54 years old, 5ft 4 ins tall and I now weigh 11 stone (154 pounds) instead of just over 9 (145 pounds) and exercising is difficult . If I walk too fast or too far, or sit or stand for too long, I get a lot of pain in my back and down my right leg.

I miss going hiking, even just rambling along by the side of my local stream is an effort now . Sometimes, if the weather's warm, I walk the mile or so into town. I can't walk far in cold weather because I hurt too much .

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
That's interesting, Di. The U.S. is surely heterogenous, but those variations in dialect don't exist here.

The Dialect Map of American English by The American Dialect Society shows 24 dialect areas in the United States.

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The map and list below show the major (and a few minor) geographic dialects and subdialects of English spoken in the United States. Many of these may be further subdivided into local subdialects that are not shown here. Obviously, the borders between dialect regions are not well defined lines, as a map like this would imply, but a gradual transition extending on both sides of the line.

American Dialect Links gives links to various articles on dialects. You can find links to dialects of the U.S., Canada, Bermuda and the West Indies. Not all the links work, but here is one that does. It's a quiz on Newfoundland words. I got 14 out of 24 right.

The PBS site, " Do You Speak American ," also gives some links to various dialects.

Tinman

Dialect boundaries usually don't exist at all when you look at them in close enough detail. Where you have dialect X characterized by features A, B, C, and neighbouring dialect Y by features D, E, F (which may be pronunciations, word choices, elements of grammar, or whatever), if you do a close survey you find that the A/D boundary doesn't at all match the B/E boundary. For, say, a well-known north v. south division, the midland dialects are typically unpredictable mixtures.

Tinman, that was a fascinating link. I realize that I didn't completely know what a dialect was before. The site says that a dialect has its own grammar, vocabulary, syntax, and common expressions as well as pronunciation rules that make it unique from other dialects of the same language. I had no idea a dialect was so comprehensive!

Interestingly, it has me in the "Upper Midwestern" dialect, where they say we call "jelly doughnuts" bismarks. Sorry, I call them "jelly doughnuts!"

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many primitive peoples … keep the record of their herds and armies by means of notches cut in a tree or pebbles gathered in a pile.

For many years the financial records of the British government were kept on tally sticks and, after the records were transferred to paper, the officials at the Palace of Westminster decided in 1834 to burn the old tally sticks.

Unfortinately the tally sticks burnt so well that the chimney caught fire and then so did the building. It was almost completely destroyed and now only Westmionster Hall and a few other bits remain of the 11th century buildings. The mock-gothic palace which tourists now admire is quite new, having been completed around the middle of the 19th century. Like Tower Bridge it is old in looks but not in fact.

Dianthus, can you show us where on the map link you provided we will likely be meeting in 2006 for our Wordcrafter conclave?

My suggestion for our 2006 conclave was the West Midlands and I am presently researching costs for accommodation and excursions. I have posted nothing so far as I have little more to say. Rest assured I will let everyone know what ideas I have when I get them more established.

This link shows Birmingham, the centre of the West Midlands and England's second city. As you will see, there are very many interesting places within easy reach, including Telford, Dudley, Shrewsbury, Stratford on Avon, Oxford - and, of course, there are many excellent pubs in the Black Country.

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=...=&zm=1&scale=1000000

And the Malvern Hills where you can collect and drink the mineral water for free from various natural outlets...

Our Young's Brewery Tour 1
Our Young's Brewery Tour 2

Quote "...where you can collect and drink the mineral water for free from various natural outlets..."

Actually we have them here in Surrey. We call them "taps" and every house has several.

Lol, RE. But as we've discussed in another thread somewhere, much tapwater tastes disgusting to me (although it is better when I filter it).

And it's not free anyway - you have to pay water rates for it. Water flowing from a mountain is free.

Oh, Arnie, thanks for those links! How fun!

I cannot wait for our gathering.

While you others are off swilling beer, I'll be seeking an aviation museum (with Sunflower's permission, that is!). Are there any nearby?

Here's one I found - Midland Air Museum I'm sure there are more.

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And it's not free anyway - you have to pay water rates for it. Water flowing from a mountain is free

I suppose that's true - maybe £0.0001 per gallon. But I suspect that the travel costs to get to the Malvern hills would make a tidy hole in the savings!

Of course, I try never to drink water unless it's been diluted with a little alcohol:-)

There are hundreds of museums in England, and many relating to industry, especially in the West Midlands. I recall there's a Spitfire in Stoke on Trent (which is where Mitchell was born).

Go here http://www.mla.gov.uk/documents/reg_muslist.pdf for a downloadable list of registered museums in various English regions. Or go here http://www.mla.gov.uk/ and follow the links.

Thanks, arnie and R.E!

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
While you others are off swilling beer, I'll be seeking an aviation museum (with Sunflower's permission, that is!). Are there any nearby?

OK by me, Asa! And I'll want to see the Queen's dollhouse at Windsor Castle!

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OK by me, Asa! And I'll want to see the Queen's dollhouse at Windsor Castle!

I've seen it and it's very good. It's HUGE and extremely detailed. Two words of warning though. 1)You have to pay extra to go in to see it (on top of the entrance fee to the Castle itself) and 2)you have to queue for a loooooong time, even in supposedly "off-peak" periods.

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OK by me, Asa! And I'll want to see the Queen's dollhouse at Windsor Castle!

Well, My Dear, you're the only doll I want to see, but I'll stand in line with you anyway!

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Originally posted by Dianthus:

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OK by me, Asa! And I'll want to see the Queen's dollhouse at Windsor Castle!

I've seen it and it's very good. It's HUGE and extremely detailed. Two words of warning though. 1)You have to pay extra to go in to see it (on top of the entrance fee to the Castle itself) and 2)you have to queue for a loooooong time, even in supposedly "off-peak" periods.

Thanks for the tips, Di! That will help in planning.

And I see my sweet Asa will join me.

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OK by me, Asa! And I'll want to see the Queen's dollhouse at Windsor Castle!

Thanks for the tips, Di! That will help in planning.

And I see my sweet Asa will join me.

Just to whet your appetite, here is a description of it - with pictures .

I think I'll need to set up another thread about the gathering, but I think we seem to be agreed that it's going to be in the West Midlands, in September, in 2006.

I am hoping to get some idea of the price for accommodation shortly and I'll post that asap.

[QUOTE]tally[/b]

And the person who cut the notches in the tally stick was the TALLYWHACKER?

OWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!