The Illinois legislators just overrode a veto by the governor so that now a moment of silence, before school begins, is mandated by all public schools. Some citizens are irate because they see this sleasy way to get prayer into the schools, thus getting around separation of church and state. Others think that children should have a moment of silence in the morning before school starts so that they will learn to "listen to the birds" and to reflect.

What do you think about this phrase?

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What do you think about this phrase?

Which phrase?

this phrase, or this one ???

Personally, I approve of both.

It's a long time since I was at school but back then morning worship was obligatory in all schools and took place at the beginning of morning assembly. That was Protestant Christian worship, of course, since this is England's official religion. Catholics and other of different persuasions were excused worship and joined the assembly once the worship was over.

I suspect that things will be different now since there is greater diversity of belief in England these days and many schools will have as many of "other faiths" as they have Protestant Christians.

I don't know. I can certainly see the value of a little silence and if the kids (and teachers) in question are free to gaze out of the window and dream of being far away from school with its endless education initiatives then that is fine. The trouble is going to come (and it probably won't be long) when some zealot chooses to interpret it as "worshipful silence" and this takes place...


"OK class now its time for our moment of silence so that's two minutes for you to sit and do nothing. JOHNNY! stop gazing out of the window. This isn't time for you to daydream. It's time to reflect. Now, look INTO the room. And get those heads down everyone. Look at your desks. Show some respect. Put your hand down Betty. I know your parents are goddamned atheists, you told me yesterday - and I'm sure they'll burn in hell for it - but YOU will observe the silence in the same manner as everyone else. MICHAEL! stop picking your nose. I know it's making no noise but this silence isn't for you to pick your nose. It's for you to reflect, consider, meditate, pray..."

It's gonna happen. You know it is.

And something I forgot. I'd love to have a few minutes to listen to the birds. The trouble is that if I could find any birds anywhere near my city centre college, AND if I could hear them through the sound insulation and double glazing... they'd probably be coughing.

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I know it's making no noise but this silence isn't for you to pick your nose. It's for you to reflect, consider, meditate, pray..."

But what prayers and what faith?

With no direction children will be able to make up their own minds - but I suspect that there will be direction, covert or overt, depending on the school. Then all sorts of problems will start to occur as the children of Jews, Muslims, Christians and atheists will all be expected to follow the religious diktats of the school and its appointed teacher. And one thing is never more certain - some, maybe even most, of the class will not agree!

It wasn't until I was getting towards adulthood that I realised that ALL religions, without any exception whatsoever, are the creations of humankind, not of supernatural beings. Interestingly it was discussions at secondary school with two of my religious schoolteachers that made me start to think about the subject - they were both very clever and approachable men, one of whom is still alive in his 90s. It now my belief that it is wrong to brainwash children into any unproven religious belief; far better to let them choose their own belief, or beliefs, once they are mature enough, and knowledgeable enough, to make such a decision.

A period of silent refection, providing it remains as simply that, would not be a bad way to encourage children to start thinking about the more philosophical aspects of life. But, as Bob suggests, I doubt it will remain as such.

Here in Georgia we already have the moment of silence. We say the pledge and then we have about 15-30 seconds of supposed silence. Length of time depends on which person is running the morning announcements. As far as I've seen in the past 4 years of working there; no one prays, no one shuts their eyes, kids tap their pencils and wait for it to be over. It's just a part of every morning and in the library, if there are no kids around, we don't even observe it.

So... while Illinois schools may make a big deal of it for the first weeks, it's significance will pale and then it's just life as normal and part of the day.

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It's just a part of every morning and in the library, if there are no kids around, we don't even observe it.

Ah, so it's strictly a brainwashing kind of thing. No sense wasting it on the adults

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Ah, so it's strictly a brainwashing kind of thing. No sense wasting it on the adults

It would be brainwashing if religious propaganda were introduced. But it could be very useful if the children were asked to reflect upon a particular happening without there being any religious slant.

"...You will have heard that there was a Tsunami/shooting/accident..." or "...You will have heard about the new invention/rescue/lucky accident... I would like you to think about the effect this might have on you/your friends/your family...".

That kind of guidance could help children to use their period of silence effectively.

I'm just having fun imagining the poor novice teacher trying to keep 30 obstreperous 12-yr-olds quiet for one minute. Perhaps she could try my yoga teacher's guided exercises for the optic nerve: "keep eyes closed.. gaze left.. gaze right.. now gentle gaze at the third eye..."

I think they should have four minutes and 33 seconds of silent contemplation.

My biggest complaint is the governement getting involved with education. What's next? We need 15 hours of basketball a week, while we delete music, art and poetry from the curriculum? I also think it might not withstand a constitutional challenge, but I am sure we'll find out.

Bob, I read your wonderful thoughts about what really would happen to Shu, in the tones I'd imagine, and we had quite a laugh. You nailed what actually will happen!

Richard, it is different in the U.S. because we have separation of church from state (supposedly). Your thoughts that people could pray in any religion are legitimate, I suppose...except for the atheists (I am not sure about agnostics). Further, I believe the teacher will set the religious tone. In some classrooms the teacher will merely call this a moment of silence; in others, they will promote their own religion. My belief is that prayer should be done at home, not at school. And I consider this a moment of prayer; calling it a moment of silence is disingenuous, in my mind. It most assuredly isn't a time to "listen to the birds;" as many have said, it's hard to hear the birds in any school environment.

I also wonder what will happen to the teachers who refuse. I know that nurses can refuse to take care of abortion patients, based on their religious beliefs. Can a teacher, who does consider this prayer time, refuse? If they do, will they be fired?

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So... while Illinois schools may make a big deal of it for the first weeks, it's significance will pale and then it's just life as normal and part of the day.

I do agree that in the scheme of things, this is very small, TrossL. Yet, I believe we have the responsibility to stand up for what we think is right. I think this is wrong. Shame on me for not writing my legislators before they took this vote. I think most of us thought the veto would hold since our governor is a Democrat, as is our legislature.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

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Originally posted by neveu:
I think they should have four minutes and 33 seconds of silent contemplation.

Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn!
I've just realised that I forgot on Friday that there was a free concert of John Cage compositions, including this one, at a venue a couple of hundred yards from where I work. I was going to work late and then go to see it and I forgot.

(I suppose now I have to sit in silence watching a stop watch!)

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I suppose now I have to sit in silence watching a stop watch!

So far as I can see then only difference it would make, physically or spiritually, would be to your pocket.

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Richard, it is different in the U.S. because we have separation of church from state (supposedly).

Although our monarch is supposed to be "Defender of the Faith", in practice church and state work quite separately - probably more separately than in the USA. Indeed, as I have mentioned here more than once, our official religion is of very minor importance to probably 90% of the population.

Of course, this is not laid down in the same way as in the US Constitution as we have no written Constitution (apart from our venerable Magna Carta).

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(I suppose now I have to sit in silence watching a stop watch!)

Oh, Bob, that's a slippery slope.

I suppose the moment of silence would be upheld by the Supreme Court anyway, given recent decisions. I am so glad my kids are no longer in the public schools. I'd be very interested to see how our local schools handle it because I suspect this would be something they'd not support.

I really, really like Bob's idea about giving the kids some direction in what they are supposed to be thinking about. I am going to bring this up to the principal on Monday since right now it is such a free-for-all. I think it would be a good start to the day to say okay, we're going to have silence for a moment and we want each of you to think about one thing you can do to fight pollution, clean up your community, help the poor, fight racism, etc...

Hitch-hiking idea ....... (this could be the beginning of a vast Fortune-Cookie Industry) ... just at the beginning of the Moment of Silence, distribute the Fortune Cookies ... one per kid .... on the slip of paper they find the idea they're supposed to think about. Note this is also an exercise in reading ......

reality check...
fortune cookie wrappers, bits of cookie and the fortunes all over the floors and shoved in the desks of all the rooms.

BULLETIN ... urgent message to Fortune-Cookie suppliers in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Taipei, and Beijing ..... Please cancel our order for millions of idea-laden Fortune Cookies. Litter risk potential is too high......... bad idea ....

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I really, really like Bob's idea about giving the kids some direction in what they are supposed to be thinking about.

Yikes! Can't a guy even have a state-mandated moment of silent meditation without The Man telling you what to think about?

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fortune cookie wrappers, bits of cookie and the fortunes all over the floors and shoved in the desks of all the rooms.

When were you in my office?

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we're going to have silence for a moment and we want each of you to think about one thing you can do to fight pollution, clean up your community, help the poor, fight racism, etc...

What might also be worth considering (although it would need to be set up in advance with the agreement of the assembly) would be for the Principal to select one or two children at random, after the period of silence and ask them to share their thoughts with the whole assembly.

Although this idea would be very daunting to most adults, children are generally less inhibited about speaking out and, indeed, will already be very used to this in their usual classes.

This kind of "group-sharing" is a very worthwhile technique that most trainers use - feel free to pm me if you would like to know more.

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Originally posted by TrossL:
I really, really like Bob's idea about giving the kids some direction in what they are supposed to be thinking about. ..

Richard's actually. My idea was to let them gaze out of the window picking their noses.

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select one or two children at random, after the period of silence and ask them to share their thoughts with the whole assembly.

. . . so then I noticed that Billy has the same pants on that he wore yesterday, and that got me thinking about what that spot near the hem is - do you think it's dirt? But then I thought that maybe I should call Susie during break and ask her if she still likes Billy because she liked him last week, but she didn't even mention him yesterday because she was having a bad hair day and . . .

Remember, they will have been directed in the kind of way that TrossL and I mentioned. Any child who decided to play the smart-arse will run the risk of being pilloried by his or her peers, most of whom would take the exercise seriously.

If I were taking that feedback I would simply accept it and then ask another child for his or her further thoughts - either on the first child's remarks or on the suggested topic.

Of course, it does depend on the climate and culture in the school - but if the group is so dysfunctional that this exercise won't work, then asking them to keep silent for a couple of minutes isn't going to work either.

"Moment of silence": the camel of Christian Evangelism poking its nose into the Tent of State

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Any child who decided to play the smart-arse will run the risk of being pilloried by his or her peers

There is always that risk.
On the upside, one always stands the chance that one's baldfaced and public mockery of authority will strike a chord among the students who, resentful of of this daily ham-fisted attempt at indoctrination, burst into uproarious laughter.
Life is risk, my friend.

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resentful of of this daily ham-fisted attempt at indoctrination

Why do you suggest it would always be a "ham-fisted attempt at indoctrination"? It could be, of course, but I do not believe that members of the the teaching profession, in general, would be so crass as to try to drag in their religious or other prejudices every day.

There speaks a man who doesn't work in a school.

That's what triggered my Fortune Cookie idea. If the Topic Slips are inserted by far-flung disinterested Fortune-Cookie-Factory Workers, they could not be influenced by the (possible) bigotry of the teacher. Idea slips might provide a preview to the child's being exposed to traditional propaganda. But it would be hard to find a Board of Education that would permit it.

Cookie crumbs can be avoided when a better means of distribution is found.

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If the Topic Slips are inserted by far-flung disinterested Fortune-Cookie-Factory Workers

Ah, but quis custodiet ipsos custardes?
(who will watch the bakers?)

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Richard's actually. My idea was to let them gaze out of the window picking their noses.

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There speaks a man who doesn't work in a school.

Case in point. [I apologize for the biased article about it, but I couldn't access any of the Tribune articles on the Internet. Still, the facts of this article are true. The teacher refused to work unless all milk was removed from the lunch menu. This is an art teacher.]

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There speaks a man who doesn't work in a school.

I don't - but I have worked in colleges and, of course, I went to school.

I certainly have had issues with some of those who work in further and higher education - but I would say that poor teachers are the exception rather than the rule. That many can't do their jobs properly is probably more to do with the bureaucratic situation in which they find themselves than their own abilities.

I assume (although I accept I might be wrong) that this idea of the period of silence was intended for the most junior children (in what we call primary education) and it has been my observation that most teachers at this level are very dedicated.

So far as the article about the prejudiced vegan teacher is concerned, it would be idle to deny that there are no bad teachers and this is an example of one such. You will notice, incidentally, that the teacher was promptly suspended for his actions. It it precisely because such stupid acts are exceptional that they make the media - good news is no news.

Most teachers, like most of those who work in any profession, do the best they can; it is a rare employee who goes into work thinking, "Just how can I really screw things up today?!"

And please don't cite examples of the exceptions you have found - a minority can always be found to disprove any general principle.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Richard English,

I'm sorry to disagree Richard but It's my opinion that every single one of us, regardless of who we are or what we do for a living, drags a bag full of prejudices around with us and they inform every single thing that we do.
It has nothing to do with being a good teacher or a bad teacher (or for that matter a good or bad travel agent/nurse/ofsted analyst) - it has to do with being a human being.

Teachers are as human as anyone else and are in a situation where avoiding contentious topics is more difficult than it is in just about any other profession.

And how do prescribed and proscribed topics of silent meditation get chosen? If it's by any method other than picking random nouns out of a dictionary, it will necessarily reflect that person's or organization's values and agenda:

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fight pollution, clean up your community, help the poor, fight racism,

Not that there's anything wrong with those, but I doubt any public school's choice meditation topics will include things like stopping American war crimes, advancing American hegemony, creating a socialist utopia, making money, wondering if the highest legislative body in the state didn't have better things to do than micromanage the schools, or wondering why, if they want you to share the contents of your silent meditation, didn't they just make this a state-mandated moment of animated discussion instead.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
My biggest complaint is the governement getting involved with education.

Sic transit.
(all I can remember of high school Latin-- or was that Kurt Vonnegut )

...or as they say in Yiddish, nu.

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And how do prescribed and proscribed topics of silent meditation get chosen? If it's by any method other than picking random nouns out of a dictionary, it will necessarily reflect that person's or organization's values and agenda:

And how do good teachers choose the topics that their classes discuss in many of the other teaching sessions they run? Not every single details is prescribed in a curriculum. Indeed, most curricula give little more than a framework; it is the teacher's job to interpret and expand on that framework.

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I'm sorry to disagree Richard but It's my opinion that every single one of us, regardless of who we are or what we do for a living, drags a bag full of prejudices around with us and they inform every single thing that we do. It has nothing to do with being a good teacher or a bad teacher

But true professionals set aside their prejudices when they are doing their jobs. As a travel agent I was often asked to make bookings for people to go to places and events that I did not like - or even approve of. But, providing what they wanted to do was not illegal, then it was their business and not mine. My business was to facilitate their travel arrangements to the best of my ability. It is a teacher's job to educate his or her charges in accordance with the demands of the curriculum or syllabus. If the curriculum states that Shakespeare will be taught in the English Literature classes then the teacher will teach Shakespeare - even if he hates the man's work.

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Originally posted by Richard English:
But true professionals set aside their prejudices when they are doing their jobs.

I'm glad you feel that's possible. I disagree. I believe that it's possible to try but not to succeed.

In the Shakespeare example you cite I do not believe it will be possible for the hypothetical teacher to hide his antipathy from the class and so his opinion will colour what he is doing. Moreover if he loves Shakespeare that too will transmit to his class and that is, in theory, as wrong as showing his dislike as a teacher OUGHT to be (but can never be) neutral.

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And how do good teachers choose the topics that their classes discuss in many of the other teaching sessions they run? Not every single details is prescribed in a curriculum. Indeed, most curricula give little more than a framework; it is the teacher's job to interpret and expand on that framework.

So? Either teachers are advancing their agendas, or the state is advancing theirs. To deny that these agendas exist and that choices are based upon them is, as you would say, to ignore the facts.

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But true professionals set aside their prejudices when they are doing their jobs.

He has prejudices; you have values; I have principles.

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In the Shakespeare example you cite I do not believe it will be possible for the hypothetical teacher to hide his antipathy from the class and so his opinion will colour what he is doing.

It depends how good good he is at his job. Some will be better than others, of course. But I think it does a noble profession a disservice to suggest that there are large numbers of teachers who are unable to set aside their personal views and do their job properly.

Of course, there will be some professionals who are weak enough to allow their prejudices to overcome their knowledge of what is right, but in any profession I believe they will be a very small minority.

If not then chaos will surely ensue: police officers who will not defend people whose skin colour differs from their own; doctors who will not treat people who choose to treat their bodies in ways that do not accord with their own ideas; judges who will always rule against those whose beliefs they don't share.

I'm sorry: I believe that the majority of those who choose to be professionals try hard to maintain the standards of their professions. Those that do not, rightly, make news.

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Originally posted by Richard English:
I'm sorry: I believe that the majority of those who choose to be professionals try hard to maintain the standards of their professions.

My italics.

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I'm sorry: I believe that the majority of those who choose to be professionals try hard to maintain the standards of their professions.

I'm sorry, but that is irrelevant. The fact that some topics -- global warming, fighting racism -- are prescribed and others -- fomenting world revolution, daydreaming about Lori Halvorsen's breasts -- are proscribed implies that some topics are good and worthy of silent contemplation while others are not. This is not training or education, as no information or skills are being transmitted or learned, it is simply indoctrination.

I propose a moment of silence.

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I assume (although I accept I might be wrong) that this idea of the period of silence was intended for the most junior children (in what we call primary education) and it has been my observation that most teachers at this level are very dedicated.

Nope. It was prescribed for K-12. That's from the very youngest to the oldest in primary/secondary education.

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And please don't cite examples of the exceptions you have found - a minority can always be found to disprove any general principle.

Surely that's the case; I agree, though I don't like being preached to. I was merely citing an extreme example that has very recently occurred in our area. I do not believe the teacher has been suspended yet. It is very hard to get rid of a tenured teacher, though I believe they are in the process right now.

Teachers are no different from those in other occupations, from contemporary artists, lawyers, travel agents and nurses to physicians, software designers, and CEOs. They all deserve our respect; I'd agree with that 100%. This was actually more about politicians than about teachers. I don't think most people would agree that politicians, many of whom don't have education degrees, should be prescribing curricula in education. That should be done by the faculty and with input from the school board. At least that's my view.

Well, now that I've observed my moment of silent reflection, I feel free to speak up.

I think it's a load of hogwash. It is an attempt to get prayer in school. That is why Govenor Blagojevich vetoed it. Unfortunately, his veto was overturned.

A little history. The Silent Reflection Act allowed public schools in Illinois to offer a voluntary moment of silence at the beginning of the day. Back in 2002, then Govenor Ryan (R) signed into law a bill changing the name of this act to Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act and amending it to specifically include prayer. The prayer didn’t have to be silent or only at the beginning of the day. It only had to be voluntary, student-initiated, and “non-disruptive.” That legislation was initiated by Republicans.

Then this year, 2007, it was decided that the “moment of silence” must be mandatory. This legislation was initiated by Democrats. Govenor Blagojevich (D) vetoed the bill but it was overturned by both the House and the Senate. It went into effect immediately.

The Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act (State of Illinois Public Acts, 92nd General Assembly, Approved August 22, 2002. Effective January 01, 2003.)

This is the 2002 version.

It says “students in the public schools may voluntarily engage in individually initiated, non-disruptive prayer that, consistent with the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses of the United States and Illinois Constitutions, is not sponsored, promoted, or endorsed in any manner by the school or any school employee.” It doesn’t say the prayer must be silent.

Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act. 2002

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(105 ILCS 20/5) (from Ch. 122, par. 770)
Sec. 0.01. Short title. This Act may be cited as the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act.
(Source: P.A. 92‑832, eff. 1‑1‑03.)

(105 ILCS 20/1) (from Ch. 122, par. 771)
Sec. 1.
In each public school classroom the teacher in charge may observe a brief period of silence with the participation of all the pupils therein assembled at the opening of every school day. This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities of the day.
(Source: P. A. 76‑21.)

(105 ILCS 20/5)
Sec. 5. Student prayer. In order that the right of every student to the free exercise of religion is guaranteed within the public schools and that each student has the freedom to not be subject to pressure from the State either to engage in or to refrain from religious observation on public school grounds, students in the public schools may voluntarily engage in individually initiated, non‑disruptive prayer that, consistent with the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses of the United States and Illinois Constitutions, is not sponsored, promoted, or endorsed in any manner by the school or any school employee.

Section one says the teacher may observe a brief moment of silence at the opening of every school day. Section five says each student may voluntarily initiate non-disruptive prayer. It doesn’t say the prayer has to be at the beginning of the day, that it must be brief, or that it must be silent. It does say it must be “non-disruptive.”

Both the moment of silence and the student prayer are voluntary in this law. This was sponsored by Rep. Jonathan Wright (R-Hartsburg) and Sen. Brad Burzynski (R-Sycamore).

Governor Signs Bill to Amend Silent Reflection Act

This was sponsored by Rep. Jonathan Wright (R-Hartsburg) and Sen. Brad Burzynski (R-Sycamore). It was signed into law by George H. Ryan on August 22, 2002 and became effective January 1, 2003.

Illinois prayer in school laws amended (The Daily Eastern News, 9/6/02)

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The amended Act, now renamed the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act, now allows any student, including high school students, to initiate a "non-disruptive" prayer at any time while in school, said Karen Figcutter, a spokeswoman for Gov. Ryan.

"We felt it was necessary to clarify the rights of students to silent prayer in the classroom," Gov. Ryan said in a press release. "Students have the right to reflect silently at any time, not just at the beginning of the school day when the teacher and the entire class are involved."

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However, both supporters and opponents of the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act claim that, despite its name, the legislation opens the door for vocal prayer in school.

(emphasis mine)

Amemdment to the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act as introduced.
95TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY
State of Illinois
2007 and 2008
SB1463

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Introduced 2/9/2007, by Sen. Kimberly A. Lightford

SYNOPSIS AS INTRODUCED:

105 ILCS 20/1 from Ch. 122, par. 771

Amends the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act to require (instead of allow) a teacher to observe a brief period of silence at the opening of every school day with the participation of all pupils assembled. Effective immediately.

LRB095 09404 NHT 29600 b

A BILL FOR

SB1463 LRB095 09404 NHT 29600 b

1 AN ACT concerning education.

2 Be it enacted by the People of the State of Illinois,
3 represented in the General Assembly:

4 Section 5. The Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act is
5 amended by changing Section 1 as follows:

6 (105 ILCS 20/1) (from Ch. 122, par. 771)
7 Sec. 1. In each public school classroom the teacher in
8 charge shall may observe a brief period of silence with the
9 participation of all the pupils therein assembled at the
10 opening of every school day. This period shall not be conducted
11 as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent
12 prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities
13 of the day.
14 (Source: P.A. 76-21.)

15 Section 99. Effective date. This Act takes effect upon
16 becoming law.

Governor's veto

quote:

August 28, 2007

To the Honorable Members of the
Illinois Senate
95th General Assembly

Pursuant to Article IV, Section 9(b) of the Illinois Constitution of 1970, I hereby veto Senate Bill 1463, entitled “AN ACT concerning education.”

Prayer plays an important part in the lives of many people. It certainly does in mine. I believe in prayer. I believe in the power of prayer. I also believe that our founding fathers wisely recognized the personal nature of faith and prayer, and that is why the separation of church and state is a centerpiece of our constitution, our democracy and our freedoms.

The law in Illinois today already allows teachers and students the opportunity to take a moment for silent thought or prayer, if they chose to. I believe this is the right balance between the principles echoed in our constitution, and our deeply held desire to practice our faith. As a parent, I am working with my wife to raise our children to respect prayer and to pray because they want to pray – not because they are required to.

For this reason, I hereby veto and return Senate Bill 1463.

Sincerely,

ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH

Governor

Here 's what one Illinois teacher had to say about it:

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I am a kindergarten teacher in a suburban school district. I am with my students for 2.5 hours per day. Here is a list of some of the things (besides the usual curriculum of math, reading, science, and social studies) that I am mandated by the Illinois School Code to teach:

Holocaust history
Women's History
African American History
Christ[a] McAuliffe Day
Remembrance Day
Pearl Harbor Veterans Day
Casimir Pulaski Day
Vietnam Veterans Day
Recycling Day
Leif Erickson Day
and the list goes on from here.

If my district even decides on one minute of silence per day, this will be 180 minutes per year or three hours that I could be spending teaching my students how to read.

Besides, everyone knows this is just a first step towards school prayer.

RIDICULOUS!

Teacher to battle 'moment of silence': A special education teacher had this to say:

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"People need to understand this (law) is forcing teachers out on a plank to referee an issue that's really not about silence," he said. "What if someone stands up and starts praying? The First Baptist Church in Snellsville (Ga.) ordered kids to bring their Bibles and recite the Lord's Prayer. That puts teachers in a position of being arbiters in a matter we should not be involved in.
"What happens if someone starts praying in class and I stop them?" Bown asked. "I'll be sued. It's a burden that should not be placed on teachers' backs."

RELIGION IN OUR SCHOOLS: BALANCING FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS (Whitted, Cleary, and Takiff LLC, Northbrook, IL)

Editorial: Veto of forced school prayer a wise move (8/31/2007 State Journal Register)

Our Opinion: 'Silence' law unnecessary Journal Register, Springfield, IL, October 05, 2007)

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FIVE YEARS AGO, a bill amended the state's Silent Reflection Act, changing it to the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act and guaranteeing students the right to observe voluntary, nondisruptive prayer whenever they chose to during the school day. The bill also allows for a moment of silence to begin the day if a teacher and his or her class choose to.
So, Illinois children can already reflect and pray in school any time they want. And a classroom can choose to observe a silent moment any day it wants.
But that's not enough for the legislature and those whose real motive is to slyly place forced prayer back into the public schools. For them a law is needed that will force teachers to enforce this "silent reflection." We think Blagojevich's veto message eloquently explained why this bill should not be a law.

"Prayer plays an important part in the lives of many people. It certainly does in mine. I believe in prayer. I believe in the power of prayer. I also believe that our founding fathers wisely recognized the personal nature of faith and prayer, and that is why the separation of church and state is a centerpiece of our constitution, our democracy and our freedoms," wrote Blagojevich. "As a parent, I am working with my wife to raise our children to respect prayer and to pray because they want to pray - not because they are required to. For this reason, I hereby veto and return Senate Bill 1463."

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MAYBE ONCE this vital piece of legislation is finally secured, the General Assembly can move on to pass the technical bill needed to allow school districts to collect the $400-per-pupil increase they were promised in the state budget. We're pretty sure they could use the money a lot more than another vapid, state mandate.

Moment of silence or school prayer? (October 12, 2007, Chicago Sun-Times)

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“Unfortunately lawmakers continue to meddle in this area, so we end up with laws like this that are either difficult to interpret or end up not having much practical effect, except to add another burden to the teachers’ day.”

School Prayers and Bible Reading Myths About the Separation of Church and State (About.com: Agnosticism / Atheism)

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. . . the Illinois Supreme Court found mandatory religious exercises in public schools to be unconstitutional as far back as 1910.

Wallace v. Jaffree (1985) Supreme Court Decisions on Religious Liberty (About.com: Agnosticism / Atheism

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The important issue was whether the law was instituted for a religious purpose. Because the only evidence in the record indicated that the words "or prayer" had been added to the existing statute by amendment for the sole purpose of returning voluntary prayer to the public schools, the Court found that the first prong of the Lemon Test had been violated, i.e., that the statute was invalid as being entirely motivated by a purpose of advancing religion. In Justice O'Connor's concurring opinion, she refined the "endorsement" test which she first described in Lynch v. Donnelly:

The endorsement test does not preclude government from acknowledging religion or from taking religion into account in making law and policy. It does preclude government from conveying or attempting to convey a message that religion or a particular religious belief is favored or preferred. Such an endorsement infringes the religious liberty of the nonadherent, for "[w]hen the power, prestige and financial support of government is placed behind a particular religious belief, the indirect coercive pressure upon religious minorities to conform to the prevailing officially approved religion is plain." At issue today is whether state moment of silence statutes in general, and Alabama's moment of silence statute in particular, embody an impermissible endorsement of prayer in public schools.

This fact was clear because Alabama already had a law that allowed school days to begin with a moment for silent meditation. The newer law was expanded the existing law by giving it a religious purpose. The Court characterized this legislative attempt to return prayer to the public schools as "quite different from merely protecting every student's right to engage in voluntary prayer during an appropriate moment of silence during the schoolday."

Lynch v. Donnelly (1983)

Supreme Court Decisions on Religious Liberty (About.com: Agnosticism / Atheism)

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In her concurring opinion, Justice O'Connor offered a "clarification" of how the Establishment Clause should be read:

The Establishment Clause prohibits government from making adherence to a religion relevant in any way to a person's standing in the political community. Government can run afoul of that prohibition in two principal ways. One is excessive entanglement with religious institutions ...The second and more direct infringement is government endorsement or disapproval of religion. Endorsement sends a message to nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.

Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971) (Wikipedia)

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The Court's decision in this case established the "Lemon test", which details the requirements for legislation concerning religion. It consists of three prongs:

1. The government's action must have a secular purpose;
2. The government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion;
3. The government's action must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religion.

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Later developments

Lemon's future is somewhat uncertain. Sustained criticism by conservative Justices such as Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, lack of a clear reaffirmation of the central tenets of Lemon over the years since the 1980s, and inconsistent application in major Establishment Clause cases has led some legal commentators and lower court judges to believe that Lemon's days are numbered, and that the Court has implicitly left the decision of whether to apply the test in a specific case up to lower courts. This has resulted in a patchwork pattern of enforcement in circuit courts across the nation; while some courts apply Lemon in all or most cases, others apply it in few or none. The Supreme Court itself has applied the Lemon test as recently as Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000).

Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe , 530 U.S. 290 (2000), was a case heard before the United States Supreme Court. It ruled that a policy permitting student-led, student-initiated prayer at football games violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. (Wikipedia)

Court upholds Virginia's `moment of silence' (Christian Century, Nov 15, 2000)

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A federal court has affirmed the constitutionality of a Virginia law requiring public school students to observe a minute of silence in class each day.

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Virginia insisted that the four-month-old law has a secular purpose and does not favor religion. The court agreed, saying "the momentary silence neither advances nor inhibits religion." Judge Hilton went on to say: "Students may think as they wish--and this thinking can be purely religious in nature or purely secular in nature. All that is required is that they sit silently."

Court allows moments of silence to stand in schools (Chicago Sun-Times, October 30, 2001)

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The U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear a Virginia case Monday challenging that state's law mandating a daily "moment of silence" in all public schools.

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The decision seems to somewhat contradict a 1985 Supreme Court decision outlawing an Alabama law mandating daily moments of silence.

Moment of silence mandated in Illinois schools (Chicago Tribune, October 11, 2007)

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The govenor [Rod Blagojevich] cited concerns about the separation of church and state.

"The law in Illinois today already allows teachers and students the opportunity to take a moment for silent thought or prayer, if they chose to," Blagojevich wrote. "I believe this is the right balance between the principles echoed in our constitution, and our deeply held desire to practice our faith. As a parent, I am working with my wife to raise our children to respect prayer and to pray because they want to pray—not because they are required to."

New law requires moment of silence in Illinois schools (Chicago Tribune, October 11, 2007)

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Supporters say the goal is to give students a bit of peace and quiet to reflect on the day ahead -- "to listen to the rustling of leaves, to listen to the chirping of a bird, to listen to the tip-tap of a child walking," said Rep. Monique Davis, D-Chicago.

But critics called the measure an attempt to promote organized school prayer.

"It may not mandate prayer, but that's what it's about," said Rep. Lou Lang, D-Skokie.

Prayer optional, silence required, lawmakers say (Chicago Tribune, October 12, 2007)

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Sen. Kimberly Lightford (D-Maywood), chairman of the Senate Education Committee, said she sought to make the moment mandatory this year after visiting schools in her district and finding that some teachers provided students with a moment of school silence and some didn't.

Perhaps to avoid court battles, supporters of the measure tiptoed around the topic of school prayer, raising defenses that clearly rankled critics who see the new law as a way to sneak state-sanctioned prayer back into public schools.

Lightford said the quiet time at the beginning of a school day could provide children with a chance to wrestle with difficult personal issues such as abuse or bullying. She and another lawmaker suggested students might even summon the courage to stop another student from rash or violent acts, such as this week's school shooting in Cleveland.

In House debate, Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago), a sponsor of the proposal and a former educator, said children are bombarded with too much noise in society.

"But do they ever have a moment of silence to reflect, to listen to the rustling of the leaves, to listen to the chirping of a bird?" she asked.

[That may be where the “listen to the birds” phrase came from]

Moment of silence (Wikipedia)

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A moment of silence is the expression for a period of silent contemplation, prayer, reflection, or meditation. Similar to flying a flag at half-mast, a moment of silence is often a gesture of respect, particularly in mourning for those who have recently died or as part of a commemoration ceremony of a tragic historical event.

One minute is a common length of time for the commemoration, though other periods of time may be chosen, normally connected in some way with the event being commemorated (there might be a minute given for every death commemorated, for example). During the moment of silence, participants may typically bow their heads, remove hats, and refrain from speaking or moving places for the duration. A person officiating or presiding over the gathering will be responsible for the declaring and timing of the period of silence.

A moment of silence may be accompanied by other acts of symbolic significance, such as the tolling of bells, the release of doves or balloons, or a performance of the Last Post.

Must be silent bells.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman,

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I'm sorry, but that is irrelevant. The fact that some topics -- global warming, fighting racism -- are prescribed and others -- fomenting world revolution, daydreaming about Lori Halvorsen's breasts -- are proscribed implies that some topics are good and worthy of silent contemplation while others are not.

If anything has been prescribed or proscribed (and I haven't read through tinman's lengthy posting to check) then I agree it could be indoctrination. But nothing about topics was stated in the original posting or article and I took it that none would be mentioned.

And in any case, although it would be possible to prescribe or proscribe what a teacher suggested, it would be quite impossible to do the same for the children's thoughts. If they wish to daydream about Lori Halvorsen's breasts (I don't actually know the lady so that opportunity is denied to me) then that's what they will do - even if the President himself says they must not.

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I do not believe the teacher has been suspended yet. It is very hard to get rid of a tenured teacher, though I believe they are in the process right now.

Was that the vegan teacher? He was suspended according to the article.

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A little history

What does a lot of history look like?

Tinman, thanks so much for that wonderful review. We all value your factual contributions here. I also agree with your conclusion about the law, and your quote from the kindergarten teacher really got me; he or she has students for 2.5 hours per day and must teach math, reading, science and social studies, along with:

Holocaust history
Women's History
African American History
Christ[a] McAuliffe Day
Remembrance Day
Pearl Harbor Veterans Day
Casimir Pulaski Day
Vietnam Veterans Day
Recycling Day
Leif Erickson Day
and the list goes on from here.

That is ridiculous. My concern for this law is mostly that the legistlators need to keep their noses out of the curricula. When legislators can change curriclar requirements willy-nilly, there is no end to it, as the above teacher beautifully showed. The legislators have no business interfering like this. I also, though, fear that some teachers will treat the moment of silence as a moment of prayer, and I have always cherished our separation of church and state concept.

BTW, I suspect the reason our Democratic legislators supported this is because they are mad at our governor about the state budget. In fact, the state still hasn't approved its budget (that was due in the spring), and they are bickering like little babies.

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Was that the vegan teacher? He was suspended according to the article.

Sorry, I just meant I didn't think he was through with his appeals. While apparently he had always been a good art teacher, his behavior regarding his views on veganism became quite bizarre.