After reading an article about linguist Geoffrey Kahn's atempts to record the few remaining Aramaic speakers, I wonder whether Aramaic or Latin was the most spoken language in the early Roman Empire? If Aramaic, when did Latin overtake it? Saying, "70 CE" would not be right, since its influence surely didn't disappear with Jerusalem's destruction. So, whadda ya think?

Here's an article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...tongue-plummets.html

I wonder whether Aramaic or Latin was the most spoken language in the early Roman Empire? If Aramaic, when did Latin overtake it? Saying, "70 CE" would not be right, since its influence surely didn't disappear with Jerusalem's destruction.

It depends what you mean by "Roman Empire". In the Western Empire (capital Rome), the official language from the beginning to the end of the Empire was Latin. No doubts there.

In the Eastern Empire (capital Constantinople and a few other places), the official language was Koine Greek.

In the province of Judaea (capital Tibereum) as well as Syria, the de facto language was Aramaic. (One of the things that Mel Gibson's movie got wrong was having all the Roman soldiers speak Latin (Church Latin at that). Most of the troops in Judaea (as well as Syria) spoke Aramaic as did the native population. The officers would have spoken Greek or Latin depending on the context.

Greek lasted in the Eastern Empire until it was conquered by the Turks in the 15 century CE. Although it had turned into Byzantine Greek at that point.

As Prof Khan says, the Jews in Judaea had pretty much given up (Biblical) Hebrew by the mid 7th century BCE. They spoke another Semitic language, Aramaic. This Aramaic was different from but related to the Aramaic of the Talmud. It is also related to the Syriac of the Syrian Christians. Present-day Aramaic languages (which are dying out) were spoken mainly by Kurdish Jews (in Iraq). Syriac (Aramaic) is still used by some Syrian Christians as a liturgical language.

The Latin of the Western Empire is still with us today: as the Romance languages. That's about as close as today's Aramaic languages are to the "language of Jesus". Like comparing Latin to Italian.

Well, there was a BIG flaw in my thinking! I did mean the Eastern Roman Empire, but didn't say so.
Based on a recent Smithsonian article, it appeared that Kahn thinks there might be some highly isolated Aramaic speakers left who speak something close to the language of the first C. CE. Yet even in isolation, language changes, so it seems unlikely to me.

As for Mel Gibson, I suspect Aramaic sounds too close to Alcoholic.

PS: Found the article on line: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/...guage-187947061.html

it appeared that Kahn thinks there might be some highly isolated Aramaic speakers left who speak something close to the language of the first C. CE.

I am not aware of any languages that have not changed in the past 2K years. Hebrew certainly has. Modern Israeli Hebrew is nothing like Biblical or Talmudic Hebrew.

Yet even in isolation, language changes, so it seems unlikely to me.

Yeah, me, too.

And, as for Gibson's movie: he did have the Jewish characters speaking Aramaic, and he hired a Jesuit linguist to do the translation.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff:
Here's an article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...tongue-plummets.html

"Aramaic, an ancient language"
"The 3,000-year-old language"

Yeah, see, stuff like this implies that Aramaic has somehow remained the same language over 3000 years. But just because we give the old and new forms the same name doesn't mean they're the same language.

Or, if they are the same language, then English and Proto-Indo-European are also the same language.

Aramaic must have been very close to English since we can understand everything Jesus said in the Bible.

Very interesting article, Geoff. I searched our discussion board and found two whole pages of discussions on Aramaic. I was impressed with us!

Is Talmud not a fairly common word? I was surprised that they defined it for the reader.

They mentioned Chicago having several thousands of Assyrians. That might be partly because of our excellent Oriental Institute. There is a huge section on Assyria there. I highly recommend it!

quote:

They mentioned Chicago having several thousands of Assyrians. That might be partly because of our excellent Oriental Institute. There is a huge section on Assyria there. I highly recommend it!

All thanks to Chicago schools still using cuneiform writings.