I am discraded with the amount of carbon monoixde we produce if you think the same please write comments below

THANK YOU

quote:

discraded ?

And do you mean carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide?

Guessing that you do mean carbon dioxide I think all of us here would most likely agree with you Purdie. Maybe if the youngsters have environmental concerns there might be some hope for the future yet.

I don't know about over there, but over here you can't get away from the environmentalist information.

Well, CW, maybe you can't get away from environmental information (though I can't say I agree with that), but surely the environment is very much taken for granted not only by the legislators, but also by our people. Look at all our gas guzzling cars, in relation to cars in other parts of the world. I wish we were more environmentally conscious. I agree with Bob.

Point well taken. I guess I've seen that our younger folks (kids) tend to still care . . . it's the adults who are over-consuming.

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I don't know about over there, but over here you can't get away from the environmentalist information.

If Americans are that concerned why don't they sign up to some of the international agreements regarding the environment and why do they drive such thirsty cars?

Ok! You're right! So sorry! I hereby apologize for my entire nation of selfishness.

Well, I can't resist replying. First of all, regarding those international agreements, please keep in mind that nearly half of all voters did not vote for the current administration which is the one that has refused to sign the Kyoto accords. The shrub won by the smallest majority ever, and it was nearly that close last year.

I am truly weary of Americans being villified over this issue. Those of us who care, and there are a LOT of us, work very hard to raise the consciousness of people about issues of the environment. We have to try to be heard over the blattings of the media, much of which is now owned by foreign companies, the chiefest of which is Japan. Despite the name Kyoto Accords, Japan does not have a good environmental history. They are responsible for a large portion of the rape of the forests and the booming over-consumption by consumers with a bit of change in their pockets.

As for driving less thirsty cars... a lot of us do okay on that. I would love to be driving a hybrid, but there is no way I can afford an auto that costs half what my house is worth. And public transportation is a joke.

Did we bring this on our own heads? I don't know. I do know that despite years of hard work and careful voting, corporations continue to increase in power rendering any voice we might have virtually unheard.

The American people are as much victims in this as anyone else. It's just that far too many of them don't know it and aren't going to learn it until it is much too late.

I will now carefully climb off my soap box, go and eat my natural foods breakfast cooked over gas heat, having been obtained with minimal packaging and recycle any leftovers.

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First of all, regarding those international agreements, please keep in mind that nearly half of all voters did not vote for the current administration which is the one that has refused to sign the Kyoto accords.

Sadly it is true of all democracies that around 50% of voters didn't vote for their leaders. But by its leaders is a country judged.

And regardless of the history of the present US administration, the USA has been the most profligate country in its use of natural resources for many years; I remember protesting about it when I was at school, half a century ago. Then, as now, we couldn't believe that people could be so wasteful.

Of course, the gap has narrowed between the UK and the USA in the past forty-odd years - but I think that's because we have become more wasteful, not that the US consumer has become less so.

I am 62 years old. I went to American public schools all the way through my grad degrees. So I was in grade school in 1948. I have my fifth grade social sciences text book still, from 1953. It says (this is an exact quote):

"The United States is a country of unlimited natural resources. We have an unending supply of water, wood, minerals, oil and other necessary products for a good and happy life. American businesses make use of this endless supply of resources to improve our lives, providing roads, buildings, public watter supplies, food, clothing and all the other goods that we purchase daily. We are fortunate to live in such a plentiful land."

This textbook was in use in the majority of states during that time. So the generation in power is pretty much the generation that was taught that all those natural goodies would just be there forever and were ours for the picking. It is difficult to overcome that kind of early propaganda. What is truly sad is that the writers genuinely believed it.

[QUOTE]

Yes Purdi i Do Agree But Your Spelling needs Working on

quote:

Yes Purdi i Do Agree But Your Spelling needs Working on Smile

Since the topic has been raised, might I mention some of the conventions that we seem to have been adopted on this board.

Remember, first of all, that we are a language board and therefore accurate spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc., are important to all of us. We eschew most slang and lexicographical shortcuts, unless they are being used for a specific reason.

Having said which, we are fairly forgiving about the occasional typographical error since we all know that such mistakes are easily made and even the best of us might just occasionally write "it's" when we actually mean "its".

However, the use of the kinds of devices common in texting (incorrect capitalisation, created words using numbers, phoenetic spellings) seem to me to usually be unecessary on a board like this where we are, after all, exploring the beauty and range of the English language.

Of course, if someone were to raise the topic of "txt spk" then it would be a very valid discussion, and one that I would find especially useful having been born when the main use for abbreviation was in telegrams. Indeed, "telegraphese" was as ubiquitous as now is text-speak.

quote:

What is truly sad is that the writers genuinely believed it.

Jo, that is a fascinating insight. I was at school at around the same time as you, but in England, of course. Although we were (and are) a small country, in those days we still had an empire and theoretically could harvest the Empire's resources.

But we children were certainly never taught that sort of attitude about either Britain or the British Empire. Indeed, we had many shortages when I was at school; even sugar was rationed.

One of the things that always strikes me about the USA is the belief that most Americans hold that theirs is the finest country in the world. Americans maybe don't notice it, because it happens so often, but the generation in power, from the President downwards, say, frequently, "God bless America" and make remarks about "The greatest country on earth". Whether or not America is the world's finest country is not something I will argue about - what I will say is that this kind of attitude does not prevail in most other countries that I know about.

You have never heard Tony Blair say "God bless England"! Even our National Anthem praises our Monarch, not our country.

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Whether or not America is the world's finest country is not something I will argue about - what I will say is that this kind of attitude does not prevail in most other countries that I know about.

Most other countries can't plausibly make that argument. The ones that can, do.

That is an interesting reminder, Richard. We do get indoctrinated early on that we are the brightest, biggest, and best. And then if we dare suggest differently we are immediately invited to go live elsewhere. Our individual patriotism is questioned vigorously if we even hint that America might not be Valhalla and Nirvana all bundled up in one package.

It is passing strange that my generation (or even a small part of it) would have been reared with the attitude that natural abundance was unending. Our parents for the most part grew up in the Depression and lived through rationing during World War II. Perhaps it came about because of their desire that their children never suffer the same privations they were forced to endure. That attitude may well be the downfall of this country.

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Most other countries can't plausibly make that argument. The ones that can, do.

I disagree. There are many other countries that could plausibly make that argument on many grounds. Most do not (indeed, I know of no other country that boasts as much about its wealth, power and achievements as does the USA).

The problem is that anyone who criticises the USA (especially a foreigner) is liable to get a massive barrage of defensive rejoinders. I know; it's happened to me more than once.

anyone who criticises the USA (especially a foreigner) is liable to get a massive barrage

You should try being a citizen in the States and making any criticisms. It is dangerous, and I speak from experience. I don't have problem with such criticisms as long as they're well-reasoned and aptly argued. But many people are put off when they are criticized for some trait or attribute that they do not necessarily have simply because they have citizenship in the country under critique.

When I lived in Germany I had quite a few interesting conversations with Germans about their period of history from 1933 to 1945. Most of these were started by Germans. I doubt if I would have had any such conversations if I'd walked into a pub and said: "Say, what about all those people you Germans killed during WW2?" It's a matter of politesse and the rules of rhetorical engagement.

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I disagree. There are many other countries that could plausibly make that argument on many grounds.

Indeed. And I've heard that argument and lecture, at one time or another, from British, French, German, Japanese, Chinese, Swedish, Norweigen, Italian, Dutch, Danish, Swiss, and Canadian nationals.

Having spent some time in Mexico, I can assure you that Mexicans are also prickly about criticisms of their country. I suspect it's a fairly common trait and has more to do with approach than content.

Rule, Britannia!

"Lies My Teacher Told Me" is worth reading. The author examined textbooks being used in American History classes in the public schools, and discovered most of the material deals not with history but Patriotism.

Is this the voice of America?

Merle Haggard

Fightin' Side of Me

[Ed. note: Properly sung, this is in Southern Rural dialect, where "fightin'" sounds like "fatten" and "side" sounds like "sad."

This is not MY voice. I fear that Mr. Bush and Mr. Ashcroft are about to replace the Constitution with the Ten Commandments.

Thou shalt not !! ~~~ jerry]

I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way we have to live here in this country,
Harpin' on the wars we fight,
An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be.
An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides,
An' standin' up for things they believe in.
When they're runnin' down my country, man,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

I read about some squirrely guy,
Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'.
An' I wonder just how long,
The rest of us can count on bein' free.
They love our milk an' honey,
But they preach about some other way of livin'.
When they're runnin' down my country, hoss,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jerry thomas,

quote:

I suspect it's a fairly common trait and has more to do with approach than content.

Chauvinism is one thing; accurate commentary another. I am not speaking of unjustifiable defensiveness but of factual comments. Statistics are available but I fear that many who choose to laud their countries are not aware of the true situation.

For example, the world's richest people are not the Americans, but the good burgers of Luxemburg whose average annual income is $48309.28 per person. Americans come second, though at $35991.96, just ahead of Bermuda at $34893.45 The longest-lived are the Andorrans at 83.49 years; Americans are't even in the top 25; they are not the most highly educated - that's the Norwegians. Americans are 14th, below Spain; they are not the most generous on a per capita basis - that's the Luxembourgois again at $352.30 per person per annum; the USA is 20th in the world at $23.76 per person.

I am not trying to do the columnists' trick of just choosing statistics that support my point of view, incidentally, I am looking at the whole range of statistics. Here are some more. School life expectancy (a reflection on the potential education of the population) - the Norwegians again at 16.9. The USA comes in 14th with 15.2 years. The USA does rather better as regards corruption, being only the 112th in the world (Bangladesh tops that particular scale). However, most European countries do rather better, with the UK being only half as corrupt as the USA.

So how about safety? The USA is safer than many countries with 0.04 murders per 1000 people. That's 24th in the world. For Canada and the UK the figure is 0.01 per 1000 people. However, for murders with firearms the USA does not shine so brightly, being 8th in the world with a figure of 0.02 deaths per 1000 people, just better than Mexico but far worse than most of Europe. The USA does well as regards distribution of wealth, having only 12.7% of its population below the poverty line. That's better than the UK with 17% but not so good as France with only 6.4%.

I have been unable to find any statistic where the USA tops the world, though it comes close with its military expenditure. In case you were wondering why you all feel so poor in spite of your high income, you might like to consider that your Government spends $953.01 per person on military adventure. Only Israel ($1466.51 per person) and Singapore ($969.92 per person) are ahead of you.

So, is the USA the world's finest country? You decide for yourselves.

There's nothing wrong with a little patriotism but when it gets too overblown and too entrenched in people's minds it turns into jingoism. That's not a reference to the US it applies to everyone everywhere.
Back when we had our nasty little spat with Argentina over the Falklands the sinking of the General Belgrano was reported in one of our newspapers with a full page front page headline "GOTCHA!" and half the nation applauded while the other half were quietly appalled.

However the point of this post is Jingoism in songs. A few years ago I bought a mixed box of assorted CDs from a shop that was having a closing down sale.
In among them was a CD which makes Merle Haggard look like whining-commie-pinko-faggot. (I trust my use of the terminology is OK there!)

It's an album by someone called Steve Vaus and the CD is called Voice of America.

Samples of the lyrics include


Her mind was made up the moment she first got the news
She'd find a doctor and have it taken care of in a day or two
She tells herself it's no big deal, no one's gonna know just she will
It's her right to choose and she's made up her mind
So someone's gonna die today and the angels gonna cry today
...
The Good Book says "Thou shalt not kill"
But people rationalize and do it still
Don't you know there's a price to pay
So someone's gonna die today and the angels gonna cry today


in the anti-abortion song "Someone's Gonna Die Today"


Used to be prayer here 'till it was outlawed
They said a school's no place for prayer or God
...
Used to be scouts pledged themselves to God and country true
But now God's optional thanks to the ACLU
...

bewailing the separation of church and state in "Why?Why?Why?"

They got seven kids ages one to nine
With a set of twins due any time
They spend their days by the TV set
Waiting for the next fat welfare check


in the anti-welfare "Wham Bam Thank You Sam"


Every time I hear the children say the Pledge of Allegiance
I'm reminded that no price is too high for freedom
...
I am a patriot colour me red, white and blue
Fellow patriots America's counting on you

in the jingoistic "I'd rather die on my feet".

I could sort out some more examples but instead I'll quote "Will you be among the patriots" in its entirety.

You can hear it in the distance,
You can feel it in the air
You can tell the time is coming
You can sense it everywhere
You can see it in the faces
Look around you'll see the signs
America is changing
Your freedom's on the line
Will you be among the patriots
Will you stand among the brave
Will you heed the call, give your all
Will you? For the USA
It's about the constitution
About Washington DC
It's about our God and country
About our liberty
It's about our independence
It's about the IRS
It's about our right to bear arms
About peace and happiness
I believe the founding fathers
Are looking on from heaven above
They will be with us in spirit
As we take back America.


I'd like to make something clear. I love America (well most of it anyway - I was massively unimpressed by Elko when circumstances pitched me up there one day while travelling and Gary,IN is pretty grim), America has the greatest national parks on Earth, some truly astounding cities, lots and lots of great things. I even have something of a soft spot for Las Vegas.

Occasionally though someone like Steve Vaus comes along and spoils it all.

Oh yes, the "poetry" of his songs is pretty poor too.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BobHale,

our nasty little spat with Argentina over the Falklands

I was in the UK when the first boatload of soliders returned from the Falklands. It gave me an eyeful and earful of nationalist pride.

As for the poetico-cantical output of Mr Vaus, thanks I was unaware of this vermin. Guess I lead a sheltered life.

Back to words: chauvinism is an eponym from Nicolas Chauvin, a general in Napoleon's army who adjulated the little corporal.

Jingoism "Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism." AH. From the euphemism by jingo for by Jesus.

"The term originated in Britain, introduced by Irish music-hall singer G. H. MacDermott at the London Pavilion during the diplomatic crisis of 1878, when Britain's Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli convinced the Tsar to retreat from Bulgaria, restoring it and Macedonia to Ottoman rule. The chorus of a song by MacDermott and G. W. Hunt commonly sung in pubs at the time gave birth to the term. The bloodthirsty lyrics had the chorus:

We don't want to fight
But, by Jingo, if we do,
We've got the ships,
We've got the men,
We've got the money, too. "

[From the Wikipedia article on jingoism]

This article also mentions a 19th American English term for this phenomenon which I had never heard before: spread-eagleism. See the article for its contemporary picture of the origin of this word.

BTW, Wikipedia just published its 500,000th English article.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jheem,

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[long list of statistics detailing how other countries are superior to America omitted]
So, is the USA the world's finest country? You decide for yourselves.

You're making my point for me, Richard.

Purdie,
What a great thread you have started here. The discussion has been excellent, and even though people are disagreeing, they are doing so respectfully. That is what I love about this board, guys. Thank you.

For the record, I don't think the U.S. is the best country in the world. To be perfectly honest, I probably did before this forum. However, I have learned an awful lot here from our international friends...especially how many things have been invented in England.

I agree that this is a very interesting debate. Personally, I tend to get on very well with Americans but certainly our perception of your patriotism is that it is a little 'over the top'. The first American I ever talked to on the internet was very touchy about this subject. Somehow the Statue of Liberty came up (I can't remember how) and she said that when she looked at it, it filled her with pride that America was so great etc. I'm afraid I upset her because I found that kind of response typically American and VERY funny. She tried to counter that I would be offended if she laughed at England but unfortunately that argument wouldn't work because I couldn't care less. While there are people in England that are as patriotic as Americans, I think it is far less common. Many of you have commented that it is difficult for an American to criticise America but over here it is extremely common to make a joke out of our own country. The incident forced me to conclude that compared to Americans I just have no sense of nation. I am English because by some fluke I was born here. To me it is nothing more than a geographical location and if the opportunity came to leave this country it wouldn't bother me at all.

I know of many people in England who believe that George Bush is the biggest threat to world peace. Perhaps if people viewed themselves as less of national citizens and more as world citizens, the world may be a rather more peaceful place to live.

quote:

quote:
[long list of statistics detailing how other countries are superior to America omitted]
So, is the USA the world's finest country? You decide for yourselves.


You're making my point for me, Richard.

I don't know quite what point you mean but I will emphasise a point of my own. I DID NOT deliberately choose statistics that show how the USA falls below other countries, just to prove a point. That is a "red-top" journalist's trick and one I despise. My choice was necessarily selective but I chose those statistics that I felt to be most representative of a countries' overall status and standard. There are many others and I would be quite happy to check them out; just tell me which ones you want me to look up.

I like the USA; I like most of the Americans I have met; I truly believe the USA is a fine country with much to be proud of. But I do not like the way so many Americans (or so it appears from where I sit) believe that "The American Way" is the finest in the world by several orders of magnitude.

quote:

I like the USA; I like most of the Americans I have met; I truly believe the USA is a fine country with much to be proud of. But I do not like the way so many Americans (or so it appears from where I sit) believe that "The American Way" is the finest in the world by several orders of magnitude.

I agree with you 100% Richard, we are clearly of one mind on this issue.

My point is that you seem to think that your fellow Europeans are either ignorant of these statistics and arguments or too self-effacing to point them out to Americans at every opportunity. It is simply not the case. Surprisingly, the French think their way is the best way, as do the Germans, the Dutch, the Japanese, the Chinese, the British, and probably the Luxemburgers as well. Surprisingly, they are not shy about pointing this out to Americans. Surprisingly, they never notice the irony. At any given time in my professional career 50% of my coworkers have been foreign nationals, so I've heard this lecture many, many, many times.

quote:

I chose those statistics that I felt to be most representative of a countries' overall status and standard. There are many others and I would be quite happy to check them out; just tell me which ones you want me to look up.

I'm not the least bit interested in arguing the merits of the American Way, and I never have been. I can't think of anyone on this board who is. At no point in this thread have I claimed America was the greatest anything, in fact, I don't believe at any point in this thread anyone has claimed America was the greatest anything, except you.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: neveu,

I'd think it more remarkable for people not to have pride in their countries.
Among my students I have Somalis, Iraqis, Eritreans, Pakistanis, Iranians and Chinese. Every single one loves his or her country. Many of them hate with a passion things that have happened in their countries or abhor things that their governments have done but they all love their countries.

Many of you have commented that it is difficult for an American to criticise America but over here it is extremely common to make a joke out of our own country.(from Doad

Oh, I think plenty of Americans criticize our country. It is a common practice. People malign our country and ridicule our leaders all the time. When we talk amongst ourselves there is always debate about what is going on and whether or not it is wise or good. It is natural to do this, don't you think?

It is easier to get along with individuals than to agree with a nation's politics. When you meet a person, they are just that - a person. There is no grand scheme, they have personality and they can be interesting in their own right. But a whole country or a whole political party is easy to dislike because you're dealing with often contradictory ideas and something impersonal.

Also, I think it's natural to band together with your countrymen when you're under attack. We stuck up for one another.

I have a related story. My husband, in good weather, has been riding his bike to work for all the 20 years he's worked for the state. He rides down a street that has apartment buildings on either side of the street. Large complexes of apartments. Over the years the neighborhood has changed tremendously, and about 10 years ago those apartments became government subsidized housing. The crime rate has risen, etc. One side of the road is largely recent immigrants from Somalia. The other side of the road is largely African Americans. There are fights and territorial incidents all the time. But Hubby tells about this - he'll come close to the corner of that street and see that the teens on either side of the street are yelling nasty things to one another across the road. Then he turns the corner and rides down, and suddenly, both sides of the street unite, because they see Hubby (middle-aged white guy) riding down the street. He's had to find other ways to go because of this but I think this illustrates a point that is fairly common, and not just in America.

I will berate and belittle my country until we are under attack from others. Then I will defend her, tooth and nail.

Speaking of which - where does that phrase come from? Tooth and nail?

quote:

Most other countries can't plausibly make that argument. The ones that can, do.

I was responding only to your own statement above. Many countries could claim superiority over the USA in many ways, and don't. But the USA frequently claims its own superiority over other countries without there necessarily being any justification for that assertion.

Or at least, that is the perception that many of my countrymen hold, and the bellicose attitude of your present administration has done little to change that perception.

But I do not like the way so many Americans (or so it appears from where I sit) believe that "The American Way" is the finest in the world by several orders of magnitude.

It just seems at times, Richard, that you are tarring the whole bunch of us with the same brush. Many people from around the world are proud of their countries (states, counties, provinces, etc.). I see it as a human cultural trait this loyalty to one's locale. And this is usually the public face that is pointed outwards from a country. Meanwhile, inside, things are different. There are many US citizens who are critical of the USA, and I am one of them. I believe that is (or should be) a citizen's right. When foreigners are critical of one's country, there is a natural tendency amongst many to deny everything. I agree with most of what you say, but at times I wonder why you spend such an inordinate amount of time (yours and mine) reminding me of my more jingoistic fellow citizens and their quirks. I know them (some personally), but I really don't need to be reminded of them.

I know of many people in England who believe that George Bush is the biggest threat to world peace. Perhaps if people viewed themselves as less of national citizens and more as world citizens, the world may be a rather more peaceful place to live.

And yet, Doad, your government has supported Bush's policies wholeheartedly. May I say that the UK is the second biggest threat to world peace. ("We're second, we try harder.") Am I to infer that the British, as a nation, support the war in Iraq? No? Why do you suppose that I support Bush? (I don't. Thanks for asking.) Or that I am somehow a neo-con fascistic thug? One of the first things I learned when I started travelling outside of the US, was not to confuse a people with their government.

quote:

It just seems at times, Richard, that you are tarring the whole bunch of us with the same brush.

I agree 100%. I am. But that is really the only way in which one can talk about "Americans" (or Germans or Eskimos or anyone).

But one last statistic that may be interesting - it's for "pride in their country"

I didn't check it earlier but I can tell you now that, top of the tree and the nation of which the highest number are proud of their nationality is...The United States. 77% of Americans are proud of their country. They share top billing with Ireland (is it a coincidence that the Irish have so much empathy with the USA?)

Next come the Australians with 70% and then there's a huge drop. Only 60% of Canadians and 53% of Britons. Lowest, believe it or not, are the Germans with a mere 20% proud to say they are German.

Surprising, isn't it?

quote:

Many countries could claim superiority over the USA in many ways, and don't.

This is precisely where we disagree: many countries could claim superiority over the USA in many ways, and do.

I hear it all the time; you don't. Apparently other Brits don't corner you in your office and tell you that American women dress like sacks of flour, their beer is piss, and they are fat and lazy and stupid. I guess I find that kind of reassuring.

quote:

I hear it all the time; you don't. Apparently other Brits don't corner you in your office and tell you that American women dress like sacks of flour, their beer is piss, and they are fat and lazy and stupid. I guess I find that kind of reassuring.

I know what you mean! I seem to hear it all the time, too.

quote:

I hear it all the time; you don't. Apparently other Brits don't corner you in your office and tell you that American women dress like sacks of flour, their beer is piss, and they are fat and lazy and stupid. I guess I find that kind of reassuring.

I apologise on behalf of my compatriates and for their ignorance. That the remarks could be applied to some Americans is no excuse; they could apply to a few people in most countries.

The USA now brews more different types of good beer than does any other country in the world - around 10,000. Sadly Budweiser is the brew that represents American beers to the world, as does Coca Cola for soft drinks and McDonalds for food.

But people should take the trouble to find out the truth about the countries they speak of. It's not all that difficult to do these days and I try never to be critical unless I am also informed.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:
I'd think it more remarkable for people not to have pride in their countries.

I am surprising because actually I don't. I know I poke fun at Americans quite a bit but in reality it is just a bit of fun on my part. I am suspicious of anyone who has an over inflated sense of national pride and in that respect I find Americans an easy target for such fun because in general terms they are more patriotic than any other nationality I have ever come across. I just find this kind of pride in a geographical location funny because I don't share it. I am British by birth but have no particular sense of pride in my country except when winding up Americans. Other than that my nationality is a matter of complete indifference to me.

Why I Love America

(Back in the 80's George Meyer, of Simpsons fame, was fresh out of Harvard, living in Denver and looking for something to do. He decided to publish a 'zine called "Army Man" after the little green plastic Army men we had as kids. The contributors to this 'zine are a who's who of modern humor -- sorry, humour: Roz Chast, Bill Franzen, Ian Frazier, Ian Maxtone-Graham, Jack Handey, Bob Odenkirk, John Swartzwelder are just a few. Each 'zine was about 8 pages, but, as my friend Paul Spinrad says, square inch for square inch the funniest thing ever written. This little piece was on the front page of Army Man #1. I reprint it here in its entirety.)

Why I Love America
Why do I love America? Well, maybe "love" is a little strong... I mean, I think it's a good country. Definitely. But a lot of that is 'cause I was born here, and haven't seen that many other countries. Canada and Mexico, that's about it. I hear Sweden is really great. Man, I'd move there in a second. Just don't have the bucks.

quote:

Originally posted by Doad:
I know of many people in England who believe that George Bush is the biggest threat to world peace. Perhaps if people viewed themselves as less of national citizens and more as world citizens, the world may be a rather more peaceful place to live.

I agree with that assessment, as do many other Americans. Our country has done many shameful things, and it continues to do so. It is unwilling to cooperate with the International community unless it can have its own way. We have talked about this before and I would give you a link to some of our previous discussions if I could. Much of the archives seem to have been erased with the upgrades.

I don't wish to turn this into a political discussion, but I get very upset when I think of the arrogant and insensitive and illegal things our government has done and continues to do. Americans like to portray themselves as enlightened, benevolent, and tolerant. Many are. Many aren't.

Here is one man's opinion. If you read it, read the reader responses, also. Some of the readers agree with him, at least in part, and some disagree with some of the things he says. But note the ones that have the "America, love it or leave it" mentality.

Let me quote one sentence to tie this into a word post:

"And now the French and their Chirac stand at the very spearhead of the world movement against what myself and so many other Americans see as a perversion of the American identity we assumed was grounded in freedom, justice, and a respect for human lives." (bolding mine)

Myself should be I.

Tinman

I assume that last quotation is one of Dubya's deathless passages...

Ah no - I see it was this author's.

And how chilling were some of the responses from the "right wing". What is even more chilling is the fact that, minority though they may be, they are a vociferous minority who who have a voice in a country that has the ability to turn the entire globe into a radio-active wasteland by this time tomorrow.

quote:

go and eat my natural foods breakfast cooked over gas heat, having been obtained with minimal packaging and recycle any leftovers.

To be honest, although that was meant as a bit of a joke, those are probably some of the best things you can do. If everybody did the little things the overall result would be tremendous

Karl, nice to see you. I thought you'd forgotten us.

You should know by now Bob that Cat gets her way in the end

*purrs contentedly*

And for the record, I agree wholeheartedly with what Karl says. Several billion small gestures add up to one hell of a result...

You will not be surprise to learn, I am sure, that locally produced Real Ales are far more environmentally friendly than are the chemical-fizz concoctions manufactured by Dudweiser and similar organisations.

To be honest, although that was meant as a bit of a joke, those are probably some of the best things you can do. If everybody did the little things the overall result would be tremendous

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Hi,Karl! Actually it wasn't a joke. We have not had garbage pickup for over ten years now. We recycle everything we possibly can. We have a worm bin for all green kitchen garbage (translation: no meat) and a beetle bin for meat garbage. The castings from both of these bins go into our tiny little backyard garden, which provides nearly all of our vegetables during the summer and fall. We don't have enough space here to grow all our veggies. So we contract with a local Mennonite farm family. We go out there once or twice a week and help with the farming, for which we get eggs, cheese, and our veggies and fruit. In the fall, the lady of the house and I do a major canning.

Clothing in this house is handmade for the most part, including underwear. And it is recycled into rag rugs and/or deep winter quilts when it wears out. Coats are purchased at the second hand store or at jumble sales.

We are regular habitues of the local library, and all of our personal books have been purchased either at FOL sales, yard sales, or second hand bookstores.

What food we do purchase is obtained at the coop once a month from the bulk bins. We bring our own containers. We purchase half a steer, half a pig, a lamb and many chickens every year from the same Mennonite family and freeze them.

About twice a year we make a pilgrimage to the local trash yard with what we have been unable to recycle.

It is a wonderful, economic life, and hopefully we leave a very small footprint on the earth. But sometimes it isn't easy. And once in a while we splurge and stay at a hotel and eat high on the hog. Don't we, Kalleh?

Wow, Jo, that's great! Sounds like The Good Life. I have a worm bin but have never heard of a beetle bin. I've looked for ways to compost meat wastes but it's discouraged here because it attracts rats. I'd be interested in knowing the details about the beetle bin. I would also like to share your story with others, with your permission. It's inspirational!

Tinman

That does sound good, Jo, but it also sounds like a lot of work. We aren't allowed to put protein wastes in our compost, either, but we do try to compost and recycle all we can.

And Richard? Next time I enjoy a cask ale, I'll drink to the environment!