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While talking with someone tonight, she said she was a housewife. I told her I was never a housewife, I never married a house! I have always prefered the term homemaker. What do you call it? | ||
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quote: It? I don't call anybody "it". "Housewife" dates back to the 13th century, according to M-W Collegiate Dictionary, and means "a married woman in charge of a household". "Homemaker" dates to 1876 and means "one who manages a household especially as a wife and mother". I see little difference in the terms as they are commonly used. "Housewife" was often used as a perjorative stereotype in the '60s for a woman who sat at home and watched soap operas all day while her poor hubby slaved all day at a demeaning job, trying to earn enough money to support his family. The housewife was seen as economically useless. All she did was wash and iron and cook and clean and take care of the kids and...you know, women's work. I believe the term "homemaker" was used in an attempt to elevate the status of the woman who didn't work outside the house. She was no longer "just a housewife", but a "homemaker". In reality "homemaker" was just a euphemism for "housewife" and unwittingly further demeaned housewives everywhere. Euphemisms are created to make something sound better or more important than it really is. So the use of "homemaker" for "housewife" reinforced the idea that housewives were unimportant compared to men. "Housewife" became a dirty word. There are housewives who are lazy slobs and there are housewives who are extremely hard-working people. No stereotype fits them all. I don't see the negative connotation of "wife", either. True, wives were often considered the property of their husbands, and I'm sure some people still feel that way. But I certainly don't hold with the concept of people as property, and I don't believe anyone on this forum does either. A husband and wife "belong" to each other, in a sense, but they don't "own" each other. I don't see that "spouse" is any improvement over "husband" or "wife". The only reason I see for using "spouse" is to conceal the sex of the person. Tinman | |||
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I dislike euphemisms as a rule since they do little to disguise the actual meaning of the term which they replace and can cause confusion. I would have imagined that a "homemaker" was some kind of builder, had it not been explained that it is a euphemism for the (perfectly acceptable and venerable) "housewife" Similarly the term "to sleep with" as a euphemism for sexual congress is to me as uneccessary as it is inaccurate, since sleep is usually the last thing that the participants have in mind! Richard English | |||
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quote: On the subject of "homemaker" we're in complete agreement Richard. I understand it's common in the US. The college where I teach has some Picture Dictionaries which were inadvertantly purchased in the American edition rather than the UK one and the word "homemaker" is in but the word "housewife" isn't. On the subject of "sleep with", if we eliminate euphemisms we are left with the problem that there is no socially acceptable equivalent of the verb "to f***". Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum viditur Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
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if we eliminate euphemisms we are left with the problem that there is no socially acceptable equivalent of the verb "to f***". ****************************************** So? Anglo-Saxon's been getting a bum rap ever since those pesky Normans showed up in 1066!  | ||
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"On the subject of "sleep with", if we eliminate euphemisms we are left with the problem that there is no socially acceptable equivalent of the verb "to f***"." But there are many other accurate terms for the action that are not considered offensive; it's not necessary simply to use a single word. "To have sex with" is quite accurate and, to my mind, also quite acceptable. Why use an inaccurate euphemism? Richard English | |||
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quote: And, Tinman, I am sure you'll agree that the same holds for lawyers, phycisians, teachers, engineers, nurses, postal workers,husbands, etc. From a woman's perspective, Morgan, I hate "housewife", but I hate "homemaker" more. To me, the latter is almost as bad as domestic engineer, which is now the politically correct term for a housewife in the USA. For mothers, I often hear stay-at-home mom versus working mom. However, for wives with no kids, I am not sure. Frankly, I don't like any of those terms. By the way, what about "stay-at-home dads"? Thoughtful thread! | |||
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quote: Agree completely. If you are sleeping with someone and, right in the middle, they fall asleep, your technique might certainly be something for you to lose sleep over. Regarding "housewife/homemaker" etc., for a goodly portion of the latter part of his life, John Lennon stayed at home, baked bread and did other "housewifey" things and enjoyed his life immensely applying the term "househusband" to himself with, of course, no sense of denigration. I used this term myself during my late lamented marriage to a woman who was a master mechanic. She loved rooting about in a car engine (something which has never appealed to me in the slightest) while I took pride in keeping a neat and orderly house. This role reversal worked well since we both did what we enjoyed. I would often praise her mechanical abilities to my friends while she would brag about my househusbandry to hers. | |||
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quote:  EXCUSE ME, tinman?? | |||
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quote:I have never heard congress used in this manner! | |||
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My dad has stayed home for the last 15 years while my mother works full time. We jokingly have called him "Mr. Mom!"  | |||
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I have never heard congress used in this manner! ******************************************* That's because Clinton was President, not Congressman.  Seriously, I think you've led a sheltered life! I use it every time I meet an attractive woman. I ask her if she knows how congress works. If she says "no," I assume she's a virgin. Now if I were to ask her if she knows how Congress works, and she said she didn't, I'd assume she was not politically astute.  | ||
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quote: Hagar the Horrible, Oct. 24, 2004. TinmanThis message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman, | |||
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I'm with you, Morgan. I have never heard "congress" used that way, either. Tinman, you bring back some wonderful memories. I, too, remember Mother's workdays; Monday was wash day; there was a baking day and a cleaning day. You are right that the work was hard. | |||
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quote: Of course. You can substitute almost any term for "housewife" and still have a true statement. quote: I've heard them called "househusbands" and "Mr. Moms". "Househusband" is ok with me, but I don't like "Mr. Mom". "Mr. Mom" implies that a man who stays at home and does traditional "women's work" is not really a man at all. It also implies that nurturing kids is a mother's job. Why can't it be a father's job, too? Of course, the term is a bit satirical, but many people don't understand that. Tinman | |||
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Being a housewife was a hard job. Tinman[/QUOTE] That's right Tinman, being a housewife was hard in the old days! What about present day housewifery? Automatic washing machines - Tumble dryers - Microwave ovens - Self cleaning ovens - Powerful vacuum cleaners - Steam irons - Ready meals - Pre-prepared vegetables - Second cars......... Today's housewives have so much time on their hands that they spend most of their days sat on their ever increasing backsides chatting to friends on the phone, watching TV, or listening to the wireless! I think that housewives probably do 10% of the work that they used to do in the old days, but they nag and moan ten times as much when their hard working husbands get in from work. Would you believe that on several occasions, on returning home from work, I have had to cook my own food! There have also been times when I have been asked to help with the children!! | |||
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OED Definition 4. Coming together, meeting. I submit, a wholly appropriate term for sexual union. Richard English | |||
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quote: You mean you had to help take care of your own kids! Tinman | |||
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she said she was a housewife. *********************************** Was the late Bennett Cerf's spouse a Random Housewife? | ||
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There have also been times when I have been asked to help with the children!! ******************************************* Oh! That hussy! And that after she forcibly ripped your trousers from your quaking loins, flogged you into tumescence, and pounded those little squiggly-wiggly things from your person! Oh, the infamy of women!  | ||
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quote: Collins English Dictionary congress (definition 4) sexual intercourse. It is a perfectly good noun. No-one has provided a perfectly good verb yet though. Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum viditur Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
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No-one has provided a perfectly good verb yet though. *************************************** Of course, someone has. The good old AS word, "fuck" does it. 'Tis a pity it's fallen into such disrepute. | ||
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quote: Please insert the words "socially acceptable" before the word "verb" in my comment as I originally had it. Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum viditur Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
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quote: It is truly a pity that there are not more women on this board, and I, for one, am going to hunt around for more! Now, FatStan, I am sure you said that with tongue in cheek, right? Raising kids has become exponentially more complicated these days. And, remember, "women's lib" has encouraged women to have careers, though often their home and parental responsibilities haven't changed at all. While the mother doesn't have to stay at home all day churning butter, making bread, and canning for the winter, she is getting to know all her kids' friends (because of social problems such as drugs), helping out at school, and planning her kids extracurricular activities, of which there are many. Parents must take a more proactive role in keeping their kids focused on taking the right paths because there are soooo many more paths to take. | |||
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quote: I haven't heard from museamuse or wfc for a while. I especially enjoyed wfc's ramblings, though I didn't always understand them. She seemed to be a free spirit. Don't let FatStan get to you, Kalleh. I think he was joking, judging by his comment about having to care for his children. But if he wasn't, he is clearly in the minority on this board. If you'll notice, all the other male comments were supportive of housewives - or whatever term you prefer. Tinman | |||
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Sheesh! Take a couple of days off for time with my family and look what has happened in my absence! OK...FatStan..."Today's housewives have so much time on their hands that they spend most of their days sat on their ever increasing backsides chatting to friends on the phone, watching TV, or listening to the wireless!" Listening to the wireless? You mean a radio? Wow! I heard my grandfather call it a wireless many years ago, but he was really, really old!  | |||
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quote:I'm with you! Let's find some! And I certainly hope you men on the board are not just trying to raise our ire! If that is your point, you are succeeding! | |||
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Men from the North of England have a reputation for treating their womenfolk in an "old-fashioned" way. Although I suspect that it is not necessarily true nowadays, maybe FS is trying to preserve it! Richard English | |||
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Perhaps you are right, Richard. There definitely are benefits to women being treated in the "old-fashioned way". The trouble with American men is that often they want it both ways. They want the wife with a career, but they also expect that wife to be in charge of the home and kids. However, I do think that FatStan was kidding. Tinman, if I recall correctly, wfc left the board because of trouble with her telephone company. MuseAmuse I believe is in academia, and, therefore, this is a bad time of the year. I do hope she comes back. In the meantime, I am planning to send out a few emails inviting women aboard. | |||
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Saturday was the day for our weekly bath. ****************************************** Tinman, YOU took a bath? Weren't you afraid of rusting? Of course, living in Seattle, you need only to walk outside with a bar of soap to take a shower! Actually, I DID see the sun in Seattle once. People were in a complete panic, wondring what that bright UFO was. | ||
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quote: Many of today's "housewives" (to use the archaic term) are also "working moms" (to use the newer one). If such a woman employs herself in the world's oldest profession, is she a whorehousewife? If all the mirrors in her home give distorted images of the viewer, is she a funhousewife? Might the head chicken in the coop be referred to as a henhousewife? If I continue in this vein too much longer and drive Kalleh completely around the bend to the point that her kids are forced to have her committed, would she then be a nuthousewife?? | |||
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I agree with Morgan. FatStan, do you keep your food in an ice box? If the wireless is broken, do you crank up the Victrola? As we've talked about elsewhere, a person's speech patterns can be used to detect the region of the country within which that person first learned to speak. They can also be used to guess a person's age which, in FatStan's case, might be rapidly approaching three digits. | |||
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quote: Yep, every week, whether I was dirty or not! My Mother had to heat enough water on a wood stove to partially fill a galvanized tub. Then the oldest would take his bath, followed by the 2nd and 3rd. At that point, I believe, the water was then changed and the next three could take their baths. I was the 4th oldest, so I had the benefit of clean water! Later when we got a house with running hot water we could bathe more often. This was common amoung rural folk. Some of them had to draw water out of wells before they could heat it on a stove. Taking a bath was a lot of work! According to Stuart Berg Flexnor in I Hear America Talking the Saturday night bath didn't become popular until the 1830s. Prior to that baths were infrequent. Quoting from I Hear America Talking, page 19: "Although some hardy men of the 17th and 18th centuries might swim or bathe in a creek or pond, bathing was in general considered unnecessary, uncomfortable and immodest. Thus the English diarist Samuel Pepys (1633-1703) expressed surprise that his wife had taken one bath in her lifetime and was considering taking a second - and when Philadelphia's Elizabeth Drinker took a therapeutic shower bath in 1799 it was remarkable enough to be recorded in her diary as her first bath in 28 years!" Can you imagine bathing only once every 28 years?! Well, maybe FatStan can. quote: Up here people don't tan; they rust. quote: Why do you think they call it the Pacific North Wet! Tinman | |||
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Quote "...If the wireless is broken, do you crank up the Victrola?..." Not in the UK. The expression "Victrola" is quite unknown here. Dependent on the period we would have listened to a phonograph (with wax cylinders) a gramophone (with shellac 78rpm discs); a record-player (with plastic 45 or 33 discs) or, if we were wealthy, a radiogram which probably played all kinds of disk if it had been made after about 1950. Richard English | |||
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quote: Too late, CJ. I am now the official nuthousewife! | |||
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This speaks for itself. 1. Bild a far in back yard to het kettle of rainwater. 2. Set tubs so smoke won't blow in efes, if wind is peart. 3. Shave one hole cake of lie sope in bilinng water. 4. Sort things in three piles – 1 pile white,1 pile cullards, 1 pale work britches and rags. 5. Stur flower in cold water to smooth, then thin down with biling water to make starch. 6. Rub dirty spots on board, scrub hard then bile. Rub cullarrds, but don't bile, just rench and starch. 7. Take white things out of kettle with broomstick handle, the rench, blew and starch. 8. Spread tee towels on grass. 9. Hang old rags on fence. 10. Pour rench water in flower beds. 11. Scrub proch with hot sopy water. 12. Turn tubs upside down. 13. Go put on clean dress, smooth hair with side combs, brew cub of tea, set and rest and rock a spell and count blessin's. | |||
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Here I am! Yes, you're right, Kalleh, it is a very difficult time of year for me: assignments to mark, translations to do, classes to prepare and teach in addition to children to take care of, clothes to wash (yes, in a washing machine) to dry (in the drier), to iron (with an electric iron), to fold (with my hands), to put away, shopping to do, food to put away, meals to cook, homework to help my children with, carpets to vacuum, dog to walk, attention to give... enough already? I have found that mod-cons have made our lives easier in some ways, but then, more difficult in others. We have higher standards now. In the past, people wore their clothes for weeks and a little spot didn't matter so much because it was such a chore to wash them. Nowadays, we wear something once and then throw it in the wash. Instead of once a week, I find myself putting wash on at least every other day. I also refuse to make Kraft macaroni and cheese and instant soups for my children because processed food is so unhealthy. So even if I didn't have a job, I still think my day would be pretty full attending to my home and children, if I wanted it to be. quote: It's not just American men! In fact I think American and English men are probably much more active with the housework than Greek men. Most of them think it beneath them to do things around the house (which is one of the reason I have an EX- Greek husband) And in addition to all this, there's a board to contribute to and that's always fun. I have missed you all. I will try to pop in more often. | |||
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Quote: "This speaks for itself" Only barely to me - what language is it? Richard English | |||
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Museamuse wrote,"Here I am!" *************************************** HOORAY! Glad to see you again!  | ||
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quote: Richard? It's kind of like Cockney rhyming slang, only, American style! Let me know if you would like it translated. Would be happy to! | |||
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Monday.... 1. Bild a far in back yard to het kettle of rainwater. 1. Build a fire in the back yard to heat a kettle of rainwater. 2. Set tubs so smoke won't blow in efes, if wind is peart. 2. Set the tubs so the smoke won't blow in your face, if the wind is (blowing?) 3. Shave one hole cake of lie sope in bilinng water. 3. Shave a full bar of lye soap into the boiling water. 4. Sort things in three piles - 1 pile white,1 pile cullards, 1 pale work britches and rags. 4. Sort laundry into three piles: one pile of whites, one pile of colored clothing, and one pile of work clothing and rags. 5. Stur flower in cold water to smooth, then thin down with biling water to make starch. 5. Stir flour into some cold water until smooth, then thin it down with boiling water to make starch for the clothes. 6. Rub dirty spots on board, scrub hard then bile. Rub cullarrds, but don't bile, just rench and starch. 6. Rub dirty spots on your scrub board, scrub them hard, then boil the clothes. Rub colored clothing on the board, but don't boil, just rinse and starch them. 7. Take white things out of kettle with broomstick handle, the rench, blew and starch. 7. Take the white clothing out of the boiling water with a broomstick handle, then rinse them, put them into bluing water (to whiten), and starch them. 8. Spread tee towels on grass. 8. Spread tea towels (dish towels) on the grass. 9. Hang old rags on fence. 9. (I think you get this one!) 10. Pour rench water in flower beds. 10. Pour the rinse water into the flower beds. ( After all, you probably had to pump it from your old pump and you don't want to waste the water.) 11. Scrub proch with hot sopy water. 11. Scrub the porch with the hot, soapy water. (Again, you don't want to waste anything.) 12. Turn tubs upside down. 13. Go put on clean dress, smooth hair with side combs, brew cub of tea, set and rest and rock a spell and count blessin's. 13. ...sit down in your rocking chair and rest. Count your blessings that you only have to do this on Mondays! | |||
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We really have missed your fine mind, Museamuse. Thanks for popping back in! You may be right about American and English men, though I really have no basis for an opinion about English men, except what I read on this board. However, I think that when men do help, it is considered just that: "I'll help out my wife tonight as she seems so busy". Yet, the wife feels totally responsible if the dinner isn't made or the kids don't have clean clothes or the house isn't cleaned.... | |||
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Member posted Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:21 quote: Tinman, YOU took a bath?. Yep, every week, whether I was dirty or not! My Mother had to heat enough water on a wood stove to partially fill a galvanized tub. ******************************************* My grandmother had such a stove, as did my ex-wife's sister's in-laws in Northern Idaho. I must say a bath never felt so good as those ones earned by splitting wood, toting it to the house, firing up the boiler in the stove, waiting until my rear end had more resemblance to a popsicle than buttocks, then FINALLY Pouring steaming hot water into the tub | ||
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I spoke to some chaps at the local Conservative Club about the word wireless and the extent of its usage. Apparently it's quite commonly used albeit mainly by older generations. I explained why this query had arisen and thus ensued a conversation about housewives and womenfolk in general. The most interesting point to come up was about wives interfering in the workings of the Club. Apparently in the good old days wives were too tired after cooking, washing and cleaning to cause any nuisance to their menfolk. Nowadays, with the advent of women's lib and all that nonsense, and having been allowed equality in certain aspects of life, it seems that women are starting to take advantage of their men's benevolence. The Conservative Club was founded by men and, through their drinking, paid for by men. It is now a wealthy club where men can go for cheap drink, good company, and peace and quiet. Wives have always been allowed in the Club if accompanied by their husbands, on condition that they do not enter the bar room. There is a lounge upstairs to be used if you have to bring your wife out. Despite this generous concession, unrest amongst the wives led to them being granted associate membership without voting rights. A foyer area with some tables was created outside of the bar room, and women were allowed to come in to the Club unaccompanied. They were also allowed to buy drinks by standing in the doorway of the bar until they caught the steward's attention. He would take their orders at the door and take them their drinks on a tray for consumption in the foyer. You would think that this would be enough to satisfy any reasonable person, but no! Now the women are allowed to actually enter the men's bar to buy drinks. They are allowed to do this on condition that they walk directly to the bar, get served and leave immediately and return to to the foyer. They must not linger unnecessarily or engage in conversations at the bar. Well you've heard the saying "give them an inch and they'll take a mile." This was turning into a prime example! It may seem difficult to believe, but moves are now afoot to allow women full membership with voting rights, and the right to invade the men only bar! These militants have actually gained support from some lily livered, namby pamby, under the thumb, wimp husbands. Hopefully good sense will prevail, but this is an example of the damage that can be caused by women with time on their hands. What would they want next - a creche? | |||
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MuseAmuse says: "It's not just American men! In fact I think American and English men are probably much more active with the housework than Greek men." I lived and worked in Panama for five years and loved it but the difference between the average modern liberated male (or, to translate into FatStanian, lily-livered, under a woman's thumb, etc. wussy) and your average Latin-American man was striking. I had to instruct my co-workers (born and raised in Panama, Ecuador, and Mexico) on the intricacies of cleaning a toilet since none of them had EVER even considered performing this necessary task themselves. I hadn't realized this and so was surprised to notice that someone had sprinkled scouring powder into the bowl. Found out later that they expected the powder to do the scouring and had no idea what that funny looking brush sitting by the john was for. Say what you like about our occasional mangling of the English language (and don't get me started on our inept and thick-headed male-dominated foreign policy) but, on the whole, I'm proud to be an American man. Now, the difference between American cheese and Greek cheese? That, sadly, is a different matter entirely... (And allow me to add to the applause prompted bt your return, Ms Muse.) | |||
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All I can say is, Thank God for the return of museamuse! FatStan, you have definitely dusted my doilies! | |||
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Welcome back Muse! We desperately needed another lady on the board! By the way, I loooooooooove the way we have all expressed opinions on this thread! | |||
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By the way, "loooooooooove" has 13 letters with 10 O's, but that's another thread... | |||
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Nice, try, CJ. Trying to change the subject.... Morgan, when you first started this thread, I bet you didn't think it would be this successful! | |||
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