Earlier this week on Radio 4 there was some discussion about why a referendum wasn't being held on a particular topic. Debate ensued and the presenter was several times heard to comment on 'referendums'.

Later that morning an email was read out. It said:

'I suppose it's okay to refer to referendums. I wish someone would tell the mediums that.'

Delicious!!



Tadpole

And do we have agendae at our meetings?

I wish someone would tell the mediums
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On this side of the puddle we seem to have decided that media is singular, probably out of ignorance rather than stylistic whimsy. Is it still medium (s) and media (pl) in the UK?

For educated people , yes, but the vast majority here use media as both single and plural too...

Which brings me to an interesting point. What is the plural of the Nissan car, the Micra? Micras? Micrae?

Possibly 'The Micra cars'?


Re: 'And do we have agendae at our meetings?'

Most people seem to haves agendas, usually of the hidden variety. There seem to be a lot of them about these days.



Tadpole

The word agenda is the plural of agendum. To call agenda "agendae" is making a plural from a plural.

Sadly I fear the battle for this one is being lost although I intend still to battle for "media"

Richard English

Most people seem to haves agendas, usually of the hidden variety. There seem to be
a lot of them about these days.
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Ah, yes, Tadpole, only too true! If you read the pschychology books of such ones as Carl Rogers and Fritz Perls, you'll find that they think that most peole wear facades, and only the most developed ones dare whow their true selves, or their true motives.

adly I fear the battle for this one is being lost although I intend still to battle for
"media"
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As will I, Richard. After all, if we don't we'll lose the humour in the joke about the insane midget fortune teller who escaped the asylum. There was a small meduim at large.

The battle has been lost over data - I am sure that its singularity is now listed in one of the big dictionaries.

Strange that datum has been abandoned, but hardly anyone uses quanta!

The office of the data protection registrar (or whatever its latest incarnation is called) still uses the word data correctly (as a plural) in its literature.

Richard English

If the battle has been lost over "data," I say "Fine, let it go!"

The sentence "The data were received." is simply jarring to the ear, plain and simple. It's correct, yes, of course, but it elicits the same gut reaction (if you'll allow an anatomical mixed metaphor) as hearing something like "We was receiving the data." Sometimes it's not enough to BE correct, you have to APPEAR to be correct as well.


Similarly, a recent news item (I believe it was St. Louis based but I'm not sure) dealt with an incident where someone ended up being fired because he referred to an African-American co-worker as "niggardly," meaning "cheap or miserly."

In so doing, he was using the word in question completely correctly though I'm sure you can guess the outcome. Local English experts came to his or her defense but common sense (a debatable term at best!) won out when it was argued that with all the synonyms for "cheap" to choose from, picking "niggardly" in this case was either asking for trouble or, quite possibly, a none-too-subtle way of provoking a fight while at the same time trying to cloak the attack with a "Don't-blame-me,-blame-the-dictionary" defense.

Just thought of another one. The correct pronunciation of "forte" is "fort" since it is from the French even though the large majority of English speakers prefer the less acceptable, from a pedantic viewpoint, "FOR-tay." I like "for-TAY" since it sounds so classy but this pronunciation isn't even listed among the three acceptable in dictionary.com so I tend to avoid the word altogether.

Skirting linguistic unpleasantries is my for-TAY.

CJ, I just love your example of Forte. It reminds me of the way people prounounce the name of the department store, "TAR-get". Some prefer to sound like they shop in the upscale, French store, "Tar-ZHAY"!

It reminds me of the way people prounounce the
name of the department store, "TAR-get"
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That store is hypocritical! Last time I shot at one of their targets, they had me arrested. I refuse to shop there any more -and not just because of the restraining order!

There's another store called Bon Marche. There's no accent on the "e," but one hears people say it as if there were. Considering all the scantily clad teen girls who frequent the store, I'm thinking it should be called Bun (or Bum) Marche.

I plead guilty to calling it Bon Mar-SHAY, but that's on account of assuming that it was meant to be French, in which "bon marché" does indeed mean "inexpensive" (or "cheap," depending on your feelings about their merchandise). Maybe the moral should be "Never assume anything."

Is the name meant to mislead, do you think? Is anyone here familiar with the history of the franchise?

Not with the franchise, but there certainly was a Bon Marché in Paris years ago.

And, apparently, according to the web site, Bon Marché is spelt just like that.

quote:

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Originally posted by C J Strolin:
The sentence "The data were received." is simply jarring to the ear, plain and simple.

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It may sound jarring to your ear, but not to mine.

Tinman

Concerning where "data" and "media" are now typically treated as plural (the "technically correct latin") or plural, here are some google numbers:

"data are" (plural) : 2,650,000 hits
"data is" (singular): 3,640,000 hits

"media are" (plural) : 501,000 hits
"media is" (singular): 809,000 hits

So in each case the "technically correct" version, though it's the minority version, is still a very substantial minority with about 40% of the hits.

Somehow, I suspect that in spoken use it's a much smaller percentage.

quote:

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Originally posted by tinman:

quote:

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Originally posted by C J Strolin:
The sentence "The data were received." is simply jarring to the ear, plain and simple.

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It may sound jarring to your ear, but not to mine.

Tinman

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But, then again, might it be not that much of a stretch to assume that you have a tin ear?

quote:

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Originally posted by C J Strolin:
But, then again, might it be not that much of a stretch to assume that you have a tin ear?

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Of course. I'm a Tinman.

Of course. I'm a Tinman.
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Dare I ask the name of your dog?

quote:

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
Dare I ask the name of your dog?

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I don't have a dog. When I was a kid, though, my brother did have a dog he named Rin Tin Tin (Rinty) after the star on The Adventures of Rin Tin Tin (Oct 1954-Aug 1959 -- the first Rin Tin Tin movie was in 1922). My brother's dog was half Australian Shepherd and hakf Traveling Salesman. For years I thought Traveling Salesman was a breed of dog.

Tinman

("Traveling" can be spelled with one "l" or two.)

quote:

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
Dare I ask the name of your dog?

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I don't have a dog. When I was a kid, though, my brother did have a dog he named Rin Tin Tin (Rinty) after the star on The Adventures of Rin Tin Tin (Oct 1954-Aug 1959 -- the first Rin Tin Tin movie was in 1922). My brother's dog was half Australian Shepherd and half Traveling Salesman. For years I thought Traveling Salesman was a breed of dog.

Tinman

("Traveling" can be spelled with one "l" or two.)

Did I just finally get the "tin ear" reference?

from Rin Tin Tin, via

"Rover was killed by a...Pontiac, and it was done with such grace and dexterity that the driver was awarded both ears and the tail..."