In the UK there is a Government-backed online learning initiative called Learn Direct for which I am a registered tutor. It's a very poorly run show, as is so often the case with Government-funded iniatives, but that's another story.

Anyway, today I was checking the learner services area where students can post their queries and observations and I found the following comment:

"hi my name is XXXXX and lam doing a on line course about number skills direct findining useful for my number skills"

My first thought was, is this candidate on the right course? And my second was, if this is an indication of the student's level of literacy, what is his or her level of numeracy?

Maybe it's wrong to make fun of the disadvantaged but I am very concerned about the standards that are now so commonly accepted when, in truth, our new-found ability to communicate so widely and so easily should, surely, require a greater facility with language, not a lesser one.

Richard English

There is a perception, both among Government "educators" and a large section of the public that, in numeracy as in literacy, the minimum functional level is sufficient. We see it all too often on message boards with the "yor bord sux" style of trolling. I'm not suggesting that we all need to be Stephen Hawking but it's as if no-one can see the difference between being barely able to work out what six loaves of bread at thirty pence each cost and being able to calculate your mortgage repayments accurately. Everyone seems to be just accepting that the ability to count to ten and maybe calculate the return on a betting slip is an adequate level of numeracy.
Similarly our own pet peeve of apostrophe misuse is just one symptom of a general attitude that it's enough to be able to leave a note for the milkman in broken English.
Strangely in ESOL, where we are teaching people who do not have English as a first language, we take more care over it. I teach the correct intonation in speaking, correct grammar in writing and even legibility in handwriting (an all but forgotten skill nowadays). This means that ultimately my students - be they from Albania or Zaire - will have better language skills than many native speakers.

It's time that the Government advisors and the public alike realised that "good enough" is not good enough !

Why should I let the toad work
Squat on my life ?
Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork
And drive the brute off ?
Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

[This message was edited by BobHale on Tue Dec 16th, 2003 at 1:28.]

Indeed. And my own commentary on the LD message boards about the poor use of English (amongst the tutors, not the students!) was not well received.

Would you believe that this expensive website actually had a US-English spell-checker which LD claimed could not be changed! I did manage to force them to change it once I'd spoken to the (US) site designers who were able, very simply, to sort the problem out.

Richard English

I posted an e-mail that I had received from a student here, complaining about the same lack of literacy. Yet, there was a certain amount of support for her since we, after all, could understand what she was saying. I remember that I was surprised at that response. I am glad that is not the response in this thread.

I do agree that "good enough" is not enough! I think one of the secrets of education is to teach children, when they are very young, to love to learn. I have always said that pre-school and the elementary school years of education are a whole lot more important than the high school and college years. That's when children learn to love school (or not).

One of the major differences between pre-school and elementary (infact) school, and later learnig is a simple one but one which few realise.

Most of our learning in early life is through play which is an enjoyable and highly effective method for acquiring skills and knowledge. In later school, and later life, play becomes less important - indeed it is discouraged - and learning by rote and other methods of study takes its place. Not only is it less enjoyable but it is also less effective.

Enlightened educators and trainers realise this and try to incorporate play into their learning events - to the significant benefit of their learners and themselves.

Richard English

Yes, I agree, Richard.

This whole writing issue isn't reserved for those who are uneducated, though. Coincidentally, I received as an attachment a draft of a book chapter to which I have been asked to contribute. Now, before I criticize, let me say that I admire greatly the physicians who are writing the book, and I am flattered that they asked for my assistance. The authors are highly respected physicians from leading universities.

Yet, I was shocked at the use of grammar, and even at the quality of the work. While it was clear that they knew the subject, the draft was unclear, redundant, disorganized, and fraught with grammatical errors. As an example: "The apprentice method of imparting medical education which have been welcomed for decade, have revolved around the authoritative decision making process of a well meaning senior physician."

Now, I am trying to keep an open mind, as I know this is a draft. Yet, I would never send anything like this to anyone. I assume that these physicians know that an editor will fix it, but this just adds to that "just good enough" mindset.

Off the thread of the discussion, but related to the posted theme --- Sometimes a college student in Cambridge (MA) gets on the supermarket express line with more than ten items. Wisdom has it, that it is either a Harvard student who can't count, or else an MIT student who can't read...

RJA

Hilarious, Robert!

I know that this has changed, but when I was in college, I had a friend who got an 800 in his math SATs, a 400 in verbal, and got into MIT!

Wisdom has it, that it is either a Harvard student who can't count, or
else an MIT student who can't read..
________________________________________________

Odd. I thought that MIT stood for "Mensans In Training."

Back to the original post: Was the person in question a native English speaker, or do you know?
Based on sentence structure, I would guess not.

It's not possible to tell the nationality of the learners unless they have chosen to put it in their profiles.
However, one learner from Birmingham (UK) recently posted the following:

"...erro can cause however the erro the messege is distroy knowledge the head master controle..."

Try as I might I can make no sense whatsoever of that (the context was to do with system errors).

I feel there are grounds for setting an entrance test for students to ensure that they are able to communicate and, if not, to put them first onto a remedial English course.

However, this student wrote on his profile introduction "...I am free bound to all doers going gang for me ..." so I wonder if this is some form of Eubonics (or maybe just a practical jokester)


Richard English

quote:

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I feel there are grounds for setting an entrance test for students to ensure that they are able to communicate and, if not, to put them first onto a remedial English course.

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In the US, I find that the ability of a student to pay tuition quickly overrides any concerns about the level of proficiency in English.

quote:

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"...erro can cause however the erro the messege is distroy knowledge the head master controle..."

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I'd say this text is more than likely to be caused by intoxication than illiteracy.

Possibly. But this would then mean that the student has never been sober when he's posted (and he has posted several times)

Richard English

quote:

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Possibly. But this would then mean that the student has never been sober when he's posted (and he has posted several times)

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Is it possible for me to access the data? Or was it in emails?

The postings are only accessible to those registered with Learn Direct as tutors or students. I am a tutor.

Anyone can get to the public pages, of course, and they're at www.learndirect.co.uk

Richard English