Patriotism is a sense of national pride. Is there a word for racial pride?

I heard this excellent question, and was stumped. Can you help?

Good question. The older notion of nationalism was a kind of racist pride, because some would equate nationality with ethnicity. There is also racialism and various kinds of pride movements (some racial, others societal).

Bigotry? Nazism?

Is there a way to have pride in your race and not be a bigot? Is it possible to be prideful and not be snobbish?

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Is there a word for racial pride?

Yes, It is called racism. We can be proud of our ancestors, of what they went through so that we could live today, but not because they were one color or another. I have a mixed European heredity. I can take pride in the fact that my recent ancestors made the effort to better themselves, to leave their roots in Europe, to cross dangerous water, to learn a new language and to struggle to make a living in this country, but I am not proud of all the wars, etc., that Europeans waged, just because they were European!

There is so little genetic variety in humans that most scientists consider us all one race.

I know it is a delicate subject, but I think minorities themselves are their own worst enemies today. The recent Don Imus event points up that blacks themselves propagate racism. Not all blacks, however. The ones who live in my neighborhood don't talk about race. They talk about the schools and local events, like everyone else. They go to work, make money, educate their kids and get on with life. They go to the same parties and swim in the same pool as everyone else in the subdivision.

They look forward, not backward. Their pride is in themselves and their children. We don't think of them as "minorities." We think of them as neighbors.

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The recent Don Imus event points up that blacks themselves propagate racism.

I can't say I agree with that. I felt it was Don Imus who propagated the racism.

I think most of the pride movements were an attempt to counter the self-loathing that some members of minority groups feel inwardly, that causes them to give up on feeling good about themselves and improving their lives. Black pride , gay pride, girl power, etc. There's an element of rebellion and anger in these movements to greater or lesser degrees, but some of it was/is positive.

I don't have a problem with ethnic or racial pride as long as its proponents are also tolerant of other races and ethnicities. But there's a very fine line between such pride and prejudice, as others have stated. The point of teaching black children, for instance, to be black and proud is to prevent them from feeling ashamed of their race.

Wordmatic

Linguist Geoffrey Nunberg had an interesting take on the Imus flap on Fresh Air today.

Great link, z. I love Nunberg, and he makes an excellent point. Far too much has been made of that miniscule situation; the recent tragedy in Virginia certainly puts it into perspective.

Altho the Imus flap seems a tempest in a teapot compared to the Va Tech debacle, I see similar unfortunate social factors at work. Nunberg's critique of absolutist thinking as, frankly, stoopid, is right on, and it's always a pleasure to hear someone say that out loud. "Political correctness" pays fearful homage to absolutist thinking, and has everything to do with why Imus lost his radio job, as well as with how Va Tech's shooter remained on campus despite repeated collisions with faculty, administration, and the law.

bethree, I agree with you about Imus, but I'm not so sure about the second part. If you are speaking about the English Department recommending counseling, you must understand that confidentiality laws restrict faculty from finding out if the student has sought help or if they've been treated. Now, that can be changed if a judge allows involuntary hospitalization (which actually did occur in this case 2 years ago). While in this situation, the confidentiality laws seem ineffective, I think, in general, they are a good thing. As a faculty member, I have been frustrated sending a student to counseling and not knowing for sure if he or she has been treated, but I do see the reason for it.

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I can't say I agree with that. I felt it was Don Imus who propagated the racism.

Oh, Kalleh, I agree that Don Imus propagated the racism! I didn't mean to imply he hadn't. However, in the repercussion,a lot of attention was drawn to racism within minority communities, such as use of the "N" word among themselves. How does a child feel if he hears his father use that word?

I agree with most of what has been said above. I know you all well enough now (and hope you know me well enough) to know we are a pretty broad minded group. Disagreements occur about the best way to overcome prejudices.

Well, I have read a lot more commentary since I posted that remark about Imus, and I am beginning to change my mind. While I think his statement reprehensible, I was also intrigued by Snoop Dogg's comment that it's okay for him to make the comment, but it's not okay for a "white man" to make it.

Also, I heard a program on NPR where they talked about the comment I made about students in counseling. It seems that Virginia has some very stringent laws which may have prevented faculty and family from getting professional help for the young man who murdered Virginia Tech students. My comment referred to confidentiality in general and not Virginia laws. It's certainly not clear what should be done for patients with psychiatric problems, as they create significant societal stigma.

After reading the Nunberg piece I was struck by the idea that it's really a battle between absolutists and relativists that defines darned near everything! Yet we switch positions at will, it seems, grasping whatever fits our own mental schema. So-called "conservatives" are generally social absolutists, allowing no wiggle room for views they don't hold, yet it's so-called "liberals" who generally insist on the equally fascist idea of "Political Correctness." Go figure...

Kalleh, no question one's effort to assist a disturbed student-- or one's own child-- changes nature tremendously once the legal age of majority is reached. I was shocked at how little was done for Cho, after having been exposed the other side of the equation. I am familiar with several students who have been pushed into taking one to two semesters off because of behavior which was deemed by corridor-mates or RA's to be suicidal. Clearly, it's a situation which can be handled badly either way. Here's a url that summarizes what I've been hearing over the 2 yrs since my eldest started college.
http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/youthmatters/20...=youthmatters&id=414

That was an interesting article, and it's a complex subject.

Once diagnosed with a mental illness, people can be affected for the rest of their lives, depending on their occupations. For example, were nurses to report mental illness on their license applications, they could have trouble being licensed for their entire lives.

Taking medications can be a problem too. While many people can be perfectly normal on their meds, if they go off them (as Cho did), dire circumstances can result. How do you force people to take medication? Is it that or prison?

Yet, I still treasure the confidentiality laws.

This is part of a much wider question that philosophers have been pondering since humanity first learned to think and reason - how do you balance the rights of the individual against the rights of society? It's probably a question that has no answer. No one has found a good answer in the thousands of years people have been considering it. To take a different example, if I am sick and refuse treatment do you have the right to force me to take treatment or to lock me up if I don't. What if I'm sick with something contagious and deadly? What if it's contagious but relatively harmless. How do you balance my rights against the right of everyone else not to be exposed deliberately to a deadly infection.

And that's just one of thousands of scenarious where the rights of the individual come into conflict with the rights of society at large. It's probably a question that has no good answer.

The whole issue of racial pride just rubs me the wrong way. We have a month of black history, latino history, asian history and native american history; but there is no american history month. My husband was born and raised here in the south and has confederate roots. Now, he is of course proud of his ancestors as much as anyone else, but he can not claim that pride or else he must be a racist. Southerners especially I think feel ashamed to admit any kind of pride in their past. But just because someone's ancestors owned slaves, does that necessarily mean we have to despise them? That was the culture then, here in the south.

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Originally posted by BobHale:
This is part of a much wider question that philosophers have been pondering since humanity first learned to think and reason -

What!?!? They've begun to do that? Damn, it's about time!

Reason is but a thin veneer on our hormone and instinct-driven brains.

And Trossl, I know the feeling. Being from South Carolina, I've seen first hand what you're talking about. But, as one Southern writer pointed out, the whole of Southern literature hinges on the South's having lost the war. Much of Black American literature hinges on the post-bellum economic and social slavery of the North. As I said above, the animal lurks beneath our skins; reason, altruism, compassion are mere scum on deep primordial water.

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What if I'm sick with something contagious and deadly?

It all depends on how effective your lobbying abilities are, as we found with AIDS.

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But, as one Southern writer pointed out, the whole of Southern literature hinges on the South's having lost the war.

It almost reminds me of England's response to the U.S., having lost their war with us. It's strange to me how we hang onto the past so much.

I sometimes wonder why southerners in the U.S. are so sensitive. I surely think southern pride is wonderful, and southern graciousness is absolutely the best. Sorry fellow northerers, but we just don't have it!

What? You mean you don't care for cozy urban shorthand such as "Talk to the hand"??

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The whole issue of racial pride just rubs me the wrong way. We have a month of black history, latino history, asian history and native american history; but there is no american history month.

Monday was St George's day - but you can be quite sure that few English people will have even know, let alone celebrated. The English comprise around 83% of the UK's inhabitants - but it's the other 17% (no one part of which is even in double figures) that celebrate their nationality and history.

And the Scots, Welsh, and, shortly, the Northern Irish again, have their own national assemblies in addition to representation at Parliament in Westminster. Not the English, though.

Blair is a Scot and his heir-apparent, Gordon Brown, is Scottish, as is a high proportion of Labour mimisters.