Wordcrafter noted that in a comic operetta, "To choose brides, the brothers play a game of blind-man's-buff – and cheat to get the girls they want." When they have chosen, their brides-to-be each thank the brothers, and one of them sings this:

Gay and gallant gondolieri,
. . .Take us both and hold us tightly,
You have luck extraordinary;
. . .We might both have been unsightly!
. . .If we judge your conduct rightly,
'Twas a choice involuntary;
. . .Still we thank you most politely,
Gay and gallant gondolieri!

Now (passing over the horrible misuse of "both" where the proper word is "each" ) I was wondering:

. . . . . . . . . . Is "choice involuntary" an oxymoron?
.

Yes, in much the same way that a "mandatory option" package was part of a new car I bought once.

More perplexing, why would "gay gondolieri" want brides?

My peevologist orientation popped up full force on this one, Proofreader. I don't give a flying damn what the rest of the world thinks, "GAY" MEANS CHEERFUL!!!

Prhaps it did in Gilbert and Sullivan's days but it's been expropriated by the PC crowd.

but it's been expropriated by the PC crowd

Oh, sigh, you know not whereof you rant. Read, if you can, this ancient take of mine on this very subject (link).

But the generally asccepted def was "happy" until the end of the last century. Take the 1940s Cornelia Otis Skinner book title "Our Hearts Were Young and Gay", for example.

quote:

Originally posted by Proofreader:
But the generally asccepted def was "happy" until the end of the last century. Take the 1940s Cornelia Otis Skinner book title "Our Hearts Were Young and Gay", for example.

I think z's point is that the word has had many different meanings, only one of which was "light-hearted, carefree", so if you complain that it no longer means "light-hearted, carefree", why don't you complain that it no longer means "Noble; beautiful; excellent, fine" (its first attested meaning), or "Wanton, lewd, lascivious", or "leading an immoral, or a harlot’s, life", or "Impudent, impertinent", or "Slightly intoxicated", or "Finely or showily dressed", or "brilliant, attractive, charming", etc. etc.

quote:

Now (passing over the horrible misuse of "both" where the proper word is "each")

Ah, but Shu, maybe Gilbert did mean to use "both" that way.

As for the question asked, it would seem that "choice involuntary" is an oxymoron. Yet, perhaps he was explaining something like a knee-jerk reaction. While it was a "choice," it was a no-brainer.

But the generally asccepted def was "happy" until the end of the last century.

Sigh, I guess you did not read it. The meanings that goofy cited stretch back from the 19th century to the late 18th. That predates 1940s songs. Even joyful is suspect. Here's an experiment: go down to a construction site and tell some of the workers there that they exhibit a joyful exuberance and note the stares and other angry looks you get until somebody solves the problem with a little happy fisticuffs.

We could obviously debate how long it has been since "gay" meant "joyful" - but am I right in assuming that it is only in the past half-century or so that it has come to mean "homosexual"?

I certainly can't recall hearing the term during my schooldays in the 1950s - and sexual matters were then (as I assume thay are now) an ever-important topic of conversation amongst pubescent schoolboys.

OK, z, you've got me there! I don't like it, but facts are facts.

We could obviously debate how long it has been since "gay" meant "joyful" - but am I right in assuming that it is only in the past half-century or so that it has come to mean "homosexual"?

I would argue that one of the definitions of gay is still 'joyful', otherwise we could not understand the the line in the G&S song in the opening post. All I was saying is that gay has had multiple meanings throughout the last two hundred years, and while the meaning 'homosexual' is probably only about 50 years old, there's no denying that gay had some pejorative, sexual meanings in the second half of the 19th century. When some word has multiple meanings, it's always possible that a person will find something humorous or offensive to react to, connotation-wise. For example, those most hated words lists with the likes of moist and panties.

Yes, "choice involuntary" seems oxymoronic to me, but I think the choice of words was voluntarily used to evoke a laugh.

As for the varied shadings of meaning of "gay," I am so glad, after reading all of that, that I was born on a Thursday:

Monday's child is fair of face;
Tuesday's child is full of grace;
Wednesday's child is full of woe;
Thursday's child has far to go;
Friday's child is loving and giving;
Saturday's child must work for a living--
But the child who was born on the sabbath day
Is bonnie and blithe and happy and GAY!

Wordmatic

Ah, yes. I remember that poem. Guess what day I was born on? Saturday! I always thought I got the short straw, but then Wednesday's no bowl of cherries either.

Two of the euphemisms the New York Times used to use back in the day to describe homosexual men were " colorful" and "flamboyant". Make of that what you will.
Gay in it's present most prominent usage is bitter irony indeed. Poll a group of gay men about that. P. S. I'm a latent heterosexual.