Just what does the term, "born and bred" mean? Yesterday the local newspaper, the Oregonian, had an article saying that Kentucky Derby contender Brother Derek was conceived, born and raised in Eagle Point, Oregon. Today there's an article in the same paper saying that this same horse is "...attempting to become the first California-bred champion since 1962." Is Oregon so totally Californicated that it's now just a suburb of Los Angeles in the public's perception, or is there something I don't understand about "breeding?"

I will say that I haven't heard the phrase "conceived, born and raised...." Conceived??? One might have to keep those records for a horse, but for a person that surely wouldn't be cited or even known.

I suspect it was just a mistake, Asa. Born and raised means just that...being born in a city and then growing up in that city. And Oregon is a whole state away!

It's a pretty common phrase here. It means that I was born here and my family come from here.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I will say that I haven't heard the phrase "conceived, born and raised...." Conceived??? One might have to keep those records for a horse, but for a person that surely wouldn't be cited or even known.

While I know little of horse racing (hence the post) I do know that breeders know EXACTLY when, and by whom, mares are bred. Soooo, if the dam and the sire were in Oregon, it follows that their offspring was Oregon bred, not California bred. But "breeding" has multiple meanings. Maybe I don't know one or two.

It seems that Brother Derek was foaled (i.e., given birth to) in California but raised at Gavel Ranch, Oregon. Not sure where the hot stallion-mare action took place ...

[Addendum: according to this Brother Derek's sire (Benchmark) stands (i.e., is available for stud service) in Buellton, California. Seems likely, Brother Derek was bred and born in California, but reared in Oregon. Some great terminology though being used: e.g., tail-female (i.e., tracing a horse's pedigree back through its dam, its dam's dam, etc.).]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

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Brother Derek's sire (Benchmark) stands (i.e., is available for stud service) in Buellton, California.

Reminds me of an old story ... about the farmer whose plan to mate his mare and a prize stallion was frustrated by the stallion's untimely demise. The farmer rounded up a zebra from the zoo as the likeliest substitute available, but the mare indicated plainly, "No soap."

"I went to a lot of trouble to get this zebra," the farmer complained to the mare, "and besides, he has an exceptional pedigree, so what are you getting so hoity-toity about?"

The mare lowered her eyes bashfully and replied, "Who's getting hoity-toity? I'm just waiting for him to take off his pajamas."

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Originally posted by zmjezhd:
It

[Addendum: according to Brother Derek's sire (Benchmark) stands (i.e., is available for stud service) in Buellton, California.

Oh, so maybe they saw the movie, "Sideways," got the dam drunk, hauled her to California and...

Bottom line: Newspapers don't always get their facts straight! Thanks, Zmj.

I don't believe I've ever heard born and bred used with animals other than humans, before. Bred in this sense means "Reared, brought up, (properly) trained" (OED Online, under bred).

1655 W. GURNALL Chr. in Arm. vii. §1 (1669) 500/1 Paul was a bred scholar. 1711 ADDISON Spect. No. 108 3 Being bred to no Business and born to no estate. 1719 LONDON & WISE Compl. Gard. p. xxvii, The Trees or Plants to be there planted, ought to be handsome bred Plants. 1846 MCCULLOCH Acc. Brit. Empire (1854) I. 165 The sheep bred in the county. 1863 FR. KEMBLE Resid. Georgia 124 Born and bred in America. 1873 MORLEY Rousseau I. 193 Bred in puritan and republican tradition.

bred and born: see BREED v. 10.

BREED v. 10: "To train up to a state of physical or mental development. [This sense is evidently transferred from 1; the young creature being viewed as a rude germ to be developed by nurture.] a. To rear (animals) so as to develop their physical qualities or intelligence. "

Notice the 1863 citation was the first quote containing the phrase born and bred. Earlier citations are listed under breed:

to be born and bred, or bred and born: an alliterative phrase in which bred has usually sense 9 [To take charge of or promote the engendering of (animals); to ‘raise’ (cattle).] , though formerly sense 1 [Said of a female parent: To cherish (brood) in the womb or egg; to bring (offspring) forward from the germ to the birth; to hatch (young birds) from the egg; to produce (offspring, children).]

a1340 HAMPOLE Pr. Consc. 4209 In ?e first he sal be born and bredde, And in ?e secunde be nuryst. 1542 UDALL Erasm. Apoph. 113a, Where he was born and breden. Ibid. 133b, In the same Isle born, breden, and brought vp. 1580 BARET Alv. B1165 We are so borne and bredde of nature. 1601 SHAKES. Twel. N. I. ii. 22, I was bred and borne Not three houres trauaile from this very place. 1732 LAW Serious C. xviii. (ed. 2) 326 Born and bred in families that have no Religion. 1875 JOWETT Plato (ed. 2) I. 288 He was born and bred in your house.

The ? in the first quote indicates a character that I couldn't reproduce. I have no idea what the character means.

I found the phrase in only one American dictionary, the AHD:

born and bred

Born and educated in a single locale or social class. For example, Adam was a Bostonian, born and bred. Although the two words were paired earlier, the precise locution dates from the mid-1800s.

Tinman

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I do know that breeders know EXACTLY when,

Yes, Asa, that's why I said I haven't heard that term used with humans, though I have with horses. Remember, I was raised on a farm. Every so often the "breeder" would come out for a cow that was "ready." I always wondered what "ready" meant.

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I don't believe I've ever heard born and bred used with animals other than humans,

Perhaps it's regional, but with humans I have only heard "born and raised." "Born and bred" I've only heard with animals.

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Originally posted by tinman:
a1340 HAMPOLE Pr. Consc. 4209 In ?e first he sal be born and bredde,

The ? in the first quote indicates a character that I couldn't reproduce. I have no idea what the character means.

By the context, it's probably the 'thorn' character, I think originally Icelandic, and phonetically representing voiceless 'th'. Interestingly, when it faded from use, people began to mistake it for a 'y' (which it somewhat resembled), which is which we now have "Ye Olde Grogge Shoppe" (Not to be confused with "Ye gods!", which is a real word with a real 'y').

Phroggye

The letter thorn, originally from the futhark or runic alphabet, was a voiceless th as in thin: uppercase Þ and lower case þ. There was another letter edh (or eth) that was its voiced counterpart, as in them: Ð and ð. It came from a crossed d. As David said, a variant of the thorn survived for a while into the Early Modern English period, but it looked more like a y and people confused it easily, so it was dropped. In the faux Middle English Ye Olde Shoppe the ye would have been pronounced like the. The y in ye, second person plural pronoun, from the accusative form of which we get you, derived from an original g which over time became more palatalized and changed in pronunciation to a y glide.

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with humans I have only heard "born and raised." "Born and bred" I've only heard with animals.

"Born and bred" is fairly common over here referring to humans; in fact, I'd guess that it's more common than "born and raised".