When someone says, "You're a dog," what does it mean to you...both in terms of definition and gender? We discussed this on OEDILF, and the conclusion seemed to be that there is a UK/US difference, but I don't think there is. So as not to bias you, I won't tell you about the OEDILF discussion until I've had some replies.

Depends whether you are talking to (or about) a man or a woman. In recent years "dog" for woman has taken on the offensive slang meaning of someone who is very ugly. (Picked that usage from the US, I suppose)

Dog when applied for a man is often quite complimentary in a way. It's quite rare to hear it on its own but more common as "sly dog" which means he's a bit sneaky but is usually said with a degree of admiration.

What Bob said. Woof.

I think you're half right on this one, Kalleh, and from what Arnie and Bob indicate, "She's a real dog" means the same thing both sides of the water. "You sly dog, you," sounds more British to me, though I guess I've heard it over here. But what about the negative connotations of "dog," as in the National Lampoon Lemmings' "Papa Was a Running Dog, Lackey of the Bourgeoisie?"

Wordmatic

Wasn't "capitalist running dog" an all-purpose communist insult to anyone who did not agree with them? It was similar to "capitalist lackey" and meant essentially the same thing.

I believe it was common in China, where they eat dogs.

And where it is, I believe, currently the year of the dog.

This thread inspired my posting in Popourri about the Greek goddess Eris, who, according to what little I know, was the one and only butt-uuuuuugly member of the Greek pantheon.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <Asa Lovejoy>,

Aha! I thought I was right. Here is the limerick. Isn't dog used incorrectly?

Yes, it's true that her breath makes me queasy,
And her wardrobe? Decidedly cheesy!
She's got looks like a trout,
But I'll still ask her out.
What the hell, odds are good she'll be easy!


[Author's note] Sorry, ladies, we're dogs. We know it and you know it.

The limerick is CJ's, and it has been approved with 12 RFAs (for non-OEDILFers, that means that 12 people have approved it, though only 4 approvals are needed).

CJ is using a variant of the second meaning - applied to a man - that Bob mentioned. I can't see anything wrong.

I posted a comment to the effect that I didn't think that the limerick defined the verbal phrase "ask out" all that well. Nobody seems to have agreed with me :-(

Arnie, here is Bob's second definition:

quote:

Dog when applied for a man is often quite complimentary in a way. It's quite rare to hear it on its own but more common as "sly dog" which means he's a bit sneaky but is usually said with a degree of admiration.

Surely CJ's limerick wasn't describing "admiration" or a "compliment." Surely he was insulting all men in his author's note. I don't think it is consistent at all with Bob's definition. Remember, Bob also adds that the more common version is "sly dog."

Therefore, in my opinion Bob's definitions supported my view...and are similar to how I've seen "dog" used. Also, in the workshop several disagreed with CJ's use of the word "dog." Now to be fair, I did look it up when I was workshopping the limerick and did find definitions like this: "an utter failure." I haven't seen it used like that before (the dictionary calls it "slang usage"), but it does exist. That's why I didn't put up much of a fight, though I don't see why one has to use slang in an author's note. BTW, is that slang usage ever used in the UK? My understanding from the workshop was that the UKers objected the most to the use of that word.

At any rate, Arnie, I don't think you're correct that Bob's definition supports CJ's use of the word.

When I read CJS's AN, I thought his use of "dog" was in some way referring to an indiscriminating male sex drive. Just found this one in M-W:
2 a : a worthless or contemptible person b : FELLOW, CHAP <a lazy dog> <you lucky dog>

"You dirty dog, you" or "you devil dog, you" come to mind. So I think he used the word properly within this context. It was that meaning, which came across clearly to people, that was offensive to some. I was surprised at how many thought this sort of nasty attitude toward an ugly woman on the part of the narrator was funny. I was one of many who just exited out of the WS without comment because I thought it was a real slam on all but the most beautiful women.

Troutmatic

Amen.... Word (trout) matic

Not really relevent but I remember reading that workshop, among others, and thinking -what is all the fuss about?

There was a TV program the other day (a fairly serious one) about whether or not Sacha Baron Cohen's movie Borat is offensive and whether "comedy" like this should be allowed. Now in the case of Mr Cohen I'll put my hands up and say I don't like him. I don't think he's funny and I don't think his style of "humiliation comedy" is ever funny. However I also don't think he's offensive and all the people who do find him offensive are simply adding to the publicity for a rather poor comedian.

He's not the point here though. As part of the program another, more traditional, comedian tried to do ten minutes of stand-up which contained nothing that was potentially offensive to anybody. He found it impossible. His first gag could have been considered offensive to the people of his home town even though he was aiming it at himself.

It's my belief that every single piece of comedy ever written (whether succesfully funny or not) can be interpretted as offensive to someone. A joke has to be about something after all.

This doesn't mean that I think you should go out of your way to upset folks - if I thought that, maybe I'd like Borat (and Ali-G, same comedian, same crap), but it does mean that I think that if we have to pore over every word we say and scrutinise it for every miniscule potential for offense then we'd all be better of being struck dumb tomorrow.

Perhaps it's a gender thing; I am with you wordmatic and KHC.

Some of my favorite humor is not a slam to a particular group. A speaker today had the group in stitches with this joke:

Two men walked into a restaurant for lunch where there was a sign as to the specials. The first man told his waitress, "I'll have the half sandwich and a cup of soup." The second said, "I will have the salad and a quickie." The waitress stormed away. The second man said to the first, "What did I do wrong?" The first said, "It is pronounced 'quiche.'"

I know...it's better when told it's told than when it's written. Still it was funny and wasn't offensive to anyone.

Which is of course potentially offensive to anyone in your audience with literacy problems.

Well, that's pushing the envelope, Bob, but I suppose I asked for that.

When I think about "dog," we really have a lot of very different meanings for it. We have the ones described above, but also to "work like a dog" or to be as "sick as a dog" or "putting on the dog." I know there are others.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

I was just wondering if the crude gerund "dogging" has reached the US yet. It means having sex in a public place while others are watching or watching others have sex in a public place.

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Well, that's pushing the envelope, Bob, but I suppose I asked for that.

I don't believe for a second that anyone rational would be offended by your example joke but I was just reinforcing my point that just about every joke is potentially offensive to someone, and that where the potential for offense exists there will always be someone who takes it - rational or not.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:
I was just wondering if the crude gerund "dogging" has reached the US yet.

We discussed the word here. I've never heard of it, apart from this board.

PS: On a quick scan of a google-news search of the past month, I wasn't able to find any non-UK usage in this sense.

I've only seen "dogging it" to mean shirking your responsibility.

"Dog" is used as a positive slang term amoung males, now. I don't know when it started, but perhaps it's related to "salty dog."

Tinman