I was at a company picnic this week, and "won" a bottle of wine. (It only cost me $8 in tickets )

As I contemplate this bottle sitting here, I wonder if there is a name for the dimple in the bottom of the bottle, and why is it there?

I also wonder how it got the name "White Zinfandel" when it is clearly pink!

A pint of G GLE, Morgan, to get drunk on words and exhilarated by this "pink or white" elucidation :


http://www.thewinenews.com/decjan9899/pink.html

Safi

Well, after reading that wonderful article, I will surely enjoy my bottle of White Zin!

But, what is the dimple for and what is it called?

Safi, I cannot believe how fun your graemlins are!

Morgan, I went, through Google, to a wine bottle collectors' site and asked them the question in an email. I will report to you what I find. In fact, that is how I found wonderful Safi--he answered an etymology question for me, quite thoroughly, I might add. Yes, Safi is no slacker!

Morgan, good question. From the web:

"That indentation in the bottle bottom is called a punt.

It's there for a couple of reasons. First, in red wines that are meant to be aged, it provides a nifty little ramp for sediment to slide down when the bottle is raised upright in order to serve the wine. Also, it provides more structural strength to the bottle. That attribute is particularly handy with champagne bottles, since they must withstand hefty internal pressures from the carbon dioxide gas contained in the wine.

A punt is a mark of a more expensive bottle and, therefore, generally indicates the wine inside is a better quality product than wines sold in flat-bottomed bottles ... but not always."

quote:

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"...A punt is a mark of a more expensive bottle and, therefore, generally indicates the wine inside is a better quality product than wines sold in flat-bottomed bottles ... but not always."

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Well, here's hoping that the punt in the bottom of my bottle of White Zinf means that it is one of the better quality wines!

Yes Shufitz ...
and AHD gives this etymology for PUNT:

Perhaps from "punty", iron rod used in glass blowing, probably from French "pontil", from pointe, point, from Old French.

Exactly in french it is "pontil" or "poutil". Why did it give its name to the "punt" of the bottle ? Perhaps because when the bottle is blowed by the neck, the "poutil" is pushed to the bottom to maintain the bottle at the previous length. The "pontil" plunge a little in the molten glass when the bottle is turning and the glass is solidifying, and form this ... dimple.

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PS : You've got a problem to insert your ending smiley Morgan ? Just give (copying & pasting better than typing) all the url in the "image" popup.
For example : http://www.smilies.nl/party/1drink.gif >>

Safi

quote:

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PS : You've got a problem to insert your ending smiley Morgan ? Just give (copying & pasting better than typing) all the url in the "image" popup.

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It shows up just fine here! Is anyone else having trouble seeing this?

Safi's mention of "pontil" reminded me. That is the word we use here for the iron rod used by glass blowers for manipulating the hot glass. It might leave a dimple in the glass, in which case it would be a pontil-mark. However, of course, these days almost all bottles are made by machinery.

"It shows up just fine here! Is anyone else having trouble seeing this?"

All I see is an "x" inside a box which is inside another box.

Tinman

Here is what I see also ...



Please, what is the text you type in "Enter the complete URL for the image you wish to display" ?

We all want to see your star-smile !

Safi

Your patience with me is amazing! This should work this time:

Remember at the beginning of this thread I said that I emailed a wine bottle website about this? Well, I got the following answer today from that site:

"The indented part at the bottom of the bottle was originally there because
glass was left stuck to the bottom of the bottle when it was hand blown.
They pushed it up inside so that the bottle would stand up and also not to
scratch the table. In England we call it the kick-up and the scar on the bottom is called the pontil scar.
regards Fay"

It seems that we had already done a good job of answering this question. However, since Fay went to the trouble, I posted her response. Thanks, Fay, whoever you are!

The explanation about sediment and the help that the punt can give is quite correct. Another point that bears on the same aspect is that of the shape of the bottle.

Wines (and beers) that are likely to throw a sediment (usually of tannin chrystals but sometimes yeast from a maleo-lactic fermentation) should be bottled in those bottles (like the ones for Burgundy, say) that have a pronounced "shoulder". This will also help in trapping sediment.

Fine red wine should correctly be served by decanting it into a decanter (of course!) examining the liquid through the neck as it pours (traditionally by looking through it into a candle flame -but I'm sure a light bulb would do). When the last of the clear wine is poured then the bottle is discarded and the wine left to develop its character in the decanter. Great wines drunk at their maturity will not need long; wines that are too young will need longer. Very poor wines will need the longest of all and it's a useful tip for those who are serving a relatively cheap wine to use the decanter trick. After ten minutes of so the wine will taste far, far better than if it's served straight from the bottle. Uncorking the bottle in advance, by the way, makes no difference since the wine is not in contact with the air to any significant degree. If you have no decanter, then pour the wine before the guests sit down and it will develop to an extent in the glass.

Real bottled beers (I don't know the names of any brewed in the USA but there are hundreds brewed in England and possibly some find there way to the States - Worthington White Shield is a possibility) are allowed to ferment in the bottle and throw a yeast sediment. This can be very substantial and those who do not like the cloudiness of the yeast can decant the beer in much the same way as for wine. Those, (like this writer) who believe that yeast is good for you, can pour the whole lot into the glass!

Those readers who have the misfortune to live in countries where real beer is no longer brewed might wonder why we, in England, should brew beer that is cloudy, when the beers they know are sold on their supposed virtues of lightness and clarity. The answer is a simple one. Bottle-conditioned beers have a huge range of extraordinary tastes - all wonderful; the sterile products of the chemical factories all taste very much the same (and of very little except fizz).

Richard English

Richard,
From where does your amazing knowledge of beers and wines come?

Sounds like personal experience if you ask me, Kalleh!

Perhaps you could contribute some "beer words", or even a thread?

My knowledge of beers and wines comes from study and practice, with the emphasis on practice...!

In England we have (as I have already mentioned) andorganisation known as CAMRA (the Campaign for Real Ale) of which I am a life member. It therefore behoves me to be knowledgeable about the subject.

I am, of course, fortunate to live in a country that has the widest choice of alcoholic drinks available of any in the world. Even the wonderful stores in the USA, with their unrivalled choice of consumer goods, cannot match the UK when it comes to matters of booze.

Now, as regards beer words. Yes, I'm happy to have a go. I'll see if I can work the technology to create a new thread.

Richard English