Wordcraft Home Page Wordcraft Community Home Page Forums Questions & Answers about Words Announcerese
Wordcraft Community Home Page Forums Questions & Answers about Words AnnounceresePage 1 2
Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Announcerese | Login/Join |
Member |
There were problems for me and several thousand others trying to get home this evening from work. A number of problems on the railway meant that I was an hour late. While I was waiting at Charing Cross station, the station announcer apologised for the delays, and said that "Because of a trackside fire, services on the Sidcup line are at a stand." I've never heard that phrase used before; I assume it means "at a standstill", and I wonder if it is railway jargon or just this particular guy's unusual way of speaking. | ||
|
| <wordnerd> |
Don't know -- but I can say that railroad jargon differs vastly between the US and the UK. So it could well be your railroad jargon but completely unfamiliar here. | ||
|
Member |
I wouldn't have understood it at all. I would have assumed that the employees had stopped at a hot dog stand!  | |||
|
| Member |
I travel mostly on the tube these days, but I haven't heard that one before either. Mind you, railway jargon seems to change very quickly - it's not that long since they started using "passenger action" to mean someone on the line... Ros | |||
|
Member |
"At a stand" is UK railway jargon for stopped. There is a mass of rail jargon and, as Wordnerd says, there are many differences between US and UK railway (railroad) jargon. However, because the railways were invented in Britain, most of the world uses British railway jargon (modified in many cases, of course). Because railways were invented in Britain, this is also why most of the world's railways keep to the left, even when their cars drive on the right. It is also why the standard track guage throughout the world is four foot eight and a half inches. Just about the only instance I know where a UK operator has adopted US terms in on the London Underground (which was built with some American input) and where the vehicles are called "cars". On all the other UK railways they are called carriages. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
Although there have been railways (and plateways - where the flange is on the rail, not the wheel) for many years, the world's first railways, of almost any sort, were British. The first public railway (as opposed to the plateways used within private mines or other works) was the Surrey Iron Railway which was officially opened on the 26th July 1803. It was horse-drawn but carried goods across public areas from Wandsworth to Croydon and it was intended to continue to Godstone and Reigate, although that latter part was never built. A tantalisingly few traces still exist and from these it is known that the track guage was 4' 2". The first steam locomotives, both stationery and self-propelled were British and, again, most of the world bought their locomotives from manufacturers such as the Stevensons. Obviously, development moved on and many countries, especially the USA, began to move away from the initial British roots. Because of the greater distances in the USA, longer trains and therefore more powerful locomotives were soon needed and, by the middle of the 19th Century we were experimenting with US locomotives and stock. However, it was rare for the British rail companies to use US stock since it was usually not suited (in many cases, although the track guage was the same, the loading guage was too tight on the British lines). Both Britain and the USA were great exporters of railway equipment in the 19th and early 20th centuries and the country whose equipment you initially decided upon tended to be the country whose equipment you continued to buy, simply because of standardisation. To give just one simple example: in the USA trains used the Westinghouse Air brake; in the UK locomotive-hauled trains used the vacuum brake. The two systems were not inchangeable (the Westinghouse was generally the better system. although it was sightly more complex) and so it would have been expensive to chop and change. However, as is clear from its present overwhelming popularity, most countries settled for the British track guage of 4'8½". I wonder, had Stevenson settled on 4'9" - would we have remembered it so well? Richard English | |||
|
Member |
quote: Beer was invented in New York City in the mid-1850's but you'd never get R.E. to admit it. | |||
|
| Member |
quote: Hmmm. The word "beer" dates from before the 12th century, according to M-W.. Strange that they'd have a word for something that didn't exist. Must have had great foresight. Here are a few quotes from Wikipedia about beer: "A beer is any of a variety of alcoholic beverages produced by the fermentation of starchy material derived from grains or other plant sources." "Almost any sugar or starch-containing food can naturally undergo fermentation, and so it is likely that beer-like beverages were independently invented in cultures throughout the world. In the West, the oldest evidence of beer is on a 6000-year old Sumerian tablet which shows people drinking a beverage through reed straws from a communal bowl. Beer is also mentioned in the Epic of Gilgamesh, and a 3900-year old Sumerian poem honoring the brewing goddess Ninkasi contains the oldest surviving beer recipe, describing the production of beer from barley via bread. Beer became vital to all the grain-growing civilizations of classical antiquity, especially in Egypt and Mesopotamia. The Babylonian Code of Hammurabi required that tavern-keepers who diluted or overcharged for beer should be put to death. "Beer was important to early Romans, but during Republican times wine displaced beer as the preferred alcoholic beverage, and beer became considered a beverage fit only for barbarians. Tacitus wrote disparagingly of the beer brewed by the Germanic peoples of his day. "Most beers until relatively recent times were what we would now call ales. Lagers were discovered by accident in the sixteenth century when beer was stored in cool caverns underground for long periods; it has since largely outpaced ale in popularity. (See below for the distinction.) Hops, used for bittering and preservation, is a medieval addition. Hops was cultivated in France as early as the 800's. The oldest surviving written record of the use of hops in beer is in 1067 by Abbess Hildegarde of St. Ruprechtsberg: "If one intends to make beer from oats, it is prepared with hops." In 15th-century England, an unhopped beer would have been known as an ale, while the use of hops would make it a beer. Hopped beer was imported to England (from the Netherlands) as early at 1400 in Winchester and hops were being planted on the island by 1428. The Brewers Company of London went so far as to state "no hops, herbs, or other like thing be put into any ale or liquore wherof ale shall be made--but only liquor, malt, and yeast." However, by the 16th century, "ale" had come to refer to any strong beer, and all ale and beer were hopped." And about brewing: "Brewing has a very long history, and archeological evidence tells us that this technique was used in ancient Egypt. Descriptions of various beer recipies can be found in Sumerian writings, and was once the oldest known writing of any sort." Tinman [This message was edited by tinman on Tue Sep 9th, 2003 at 0:55.] | |||
|
| Member |
See here http://www.camra.org.uk/SHWebClass.ASP?WCI=ShowDoc&DocID=2197 for more about Ninkasi. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
OK, maybe it was beer advertizing I was thinking of. That's what's important, anyway... | |||
|
| Member |
There was a derailment at King's Cross station, London, this morning. The local TV news announcer said that "trains into and out of King's Cross are at a stand".Interesting that I've gone half a century without hearing that phrase used, then I hear it twice in a couple of weeks! | |||
|
| Member |
Certainly it's vitally important to Anheuser Busch. If it weren't for their very clever advertising (and other cunning, if rather evil marketing practices) nobody would dream of buying that chemical-laden, tasteless, vomit-inducing, hangover-promoting, overpriced, understrength, over-chilled and thoroughly foul concoction with which they abuse the good name of beer. The only thing that I cannot understand is how anybody, having drunk any one of the thousands of complex and often quite beautiful beers that the best of the world's brewers can make would even be seen in the same street as Budweiser - let alone allow their bodies to be abused by pouring the rubbish down their throats! Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
quote: I can do better than that. I'll claim the invention of the railway engine and the miner's safety lamp as Cornish. Catch Me Who Can | |||
|
| Member |
Although Cornwall had at one time its own version of Gaelic, it has been for many years (and long before Trevethick or even Newcomen) part of Great Britain. The miners' safety lamp was first demonstrated by Dr. William Reid Clanny, of Sunderland - and for the benefit of those whose UK geography is not of the first order, that is almost as far away from Cornwall as you can get and still remain in England. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
Ah, a typical English repressive reply. You can say such things all you like, but have a look at the Davy lamp, which gained Davy his knighthood. The Reid lamp was a very dangerous thing, igniting firedamp regularly. Nobody ever died as a result of explosions from Davy's lamp, which I hope you will note is still in use in the world's coalmines. Cornwall is, as well you know, as much a part of England as Wales and Scotland and as Brittany is part of France, the Basque area is part of Spain and Kurdistan is part of Turkey, Iran and Iraq. The only reason there aren't piles of English corpses bleeding in the roads of Cornwall is that we prefer to fight peaceably. [This message was edited by the_bear on Sat Sep 20th, 2003 at 6:45.] | |||
|
| Member |
I have no sympathy for Cornish nationalists, as they have kept pestering me at work. For some reason my work email address got added to a an email list run by a group of Cornish folk who appear to be in favour of the declaration of a Cornish nation. I have had to set up a rule to delete their missives, to stop them clogging up the box. Their adding of me to their list ininvited has the diametically opposite effect to that which was presumably intended. Whilst I was originally neutral on the subject, they have turned me against it. | |||
|
| Member |
Well, that's as maybe, though it appears to me to be a somewhat illogical step to take. It is a shame that you appear to have been added to a mailing list with no way of removing yourself. Personally, I'd complain to the Data Protection Registrar and then copy your reply to them. That will get you off the list, and if it doesn't, they can be made to remove you. | |||
|
| Member |
You may call it what you wish. I call it factual. I didn't say that Reid's lamp was better than Davy's; I said Reid invented the miners' safety lamp - and so he did. I didn't say that Cornwall had no right to its claims for independence; I said it was part of the UK - and so it is. Facts are facts; beliefs are beliefs; emotions are emotions. Try not to mistake any one for any other. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
quote:I am not so sure it is typically English. Recently, I was at an international conference where 5 continents and 19 countries were represented. Generally the group was loyal, and even a little boastful, toward his/her country. In some ways, it was nice to see. For example, the Belgiums were so pleased that their country had not allowed the Americans and Brits to invade their air space during the attack of Iraq. Now, they laughed a bit at themselves, realizing that if push came to shove, they were too small to win. Yet, they felt quite proud. | |||
|
| Member |
quote: I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that I have in the past promised not to bait R.E. on this subject. My fault. The bottom line, however: Would you rather own 1% of Anhauser-Busch or 100% of Duck's Beak Beer (or whatever that beer is you keep harping about - the name eludes me and I'm too lazy to look for it)?? | |||
|
Member |
Hilarious CJ! But the bottom line is Richard has given Kalleh, WB and me the great pleasure of drinking Fullers. A toast to you, Richard! 'Tis a fine gift you've given us.  | |||
|
Member |
quote: WinterBranch puts her dipwad hat on: (ya'll may call it a duncecap, whatever floats your boat): Cornish? I've come across that word before--and I know it has to do with some kind of regionality in the UK--and there's 'Cornish hens'--and I still don't know what those are. From what I've seen, they're li'l tiny chickens. (For the record, I know I use ' -- ' too much. People, it's like punctional heroin!) | |||
|
| Member |
"Cornish" is the adjective from "Cornwall". Cornwall is the most south-westerly county of England. For more about the county see http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/ The last native speaker of the Cornish language (a variant of Gaelic) died in the nineteenth century, although there have been artificial attempts to revive it recently. | |||
|
| Member |
I wouldn't want to own .000000000001% of Anheuser Busch. I refuse to have anything to do with the organisation and, were I to be given a bottle of their beer as a gift, I would put in in the garden as a slug trap as that's about all it's good for. And anyone who knows anything at all about REAL beer would do the same! Richard English | |||
|
Member |
Well if he doesn't want that 1% can I have it please? I have no moral qualms about making oodles of money out of other people's poor choice of beer. Ta ! Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben. - Friedrich Nietzsche Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
|
| Member |
quote: It is interesting that you describe Cornish as a variant of Gaelic. I have heard the same said about Welsh, yet the AHD's P.I.E. Chart seems to disagree. | |||
|
| <wordnerd> |
Interesting, max. To expand a bit: The chart indicates that Cornish and Welsh on the one hand, and Scotch Gaelic and Irish Gaelic on the other, are in two separate groups of Celtic languages. But Cornish shares about a 35% of its basic vocabulary with the gaelic languages. | ||
|
| Member |
You are, of course, correct, max. Technically, Cornish is a cousin of Scots and Irish Gaelic, rather than a direct descendant. | |||
|
| Member |
This is especially for Richard English and Bob Hale. I found this article in the October issue of GQ. If you are not familiar with GQ, it is an american magazine that is really nothing more than eye-candy for the trendy and fashion consientious. (Kind of amusing, because if you spend more than 5 minutes with me, you will realize that I am neither of these things.) But anyways, the article is on page 106, and deals with what R.E. often calls "swill" or more recently a "slug trap." I would truly like to post the entire article here, but I can't type that well, and I might want to go to bed sometime before the second coming of christ. Yes kids, we are talking about beer, apparently this is a frequent subject around here. If at all possible Richard and Bob, I hope that you gentlemen can find this magazine, check out this article, and possibly give me feedback. And if you are at all curious, while I do love Budweiser, Corona, and Molson Canadian, my favorite beer is Guiness. Draught or extra stout, it is the nectar of the gods. | |||
|
| Member |
Guinness is a good drink and probably the only mass-produced beer that I will allow to pass my lips. It is not just one drink (although all Guinness is black) since the company uses different recipes for different markets. The Guinness I tried in New York a while ago had a licorice taste and was not so bitter as English Guinness. Compared with such chemical fizz as Budweiser, Corona, and Molson Canadian, it is truly the "nectar of the Gods". Compared with many of the hundreds of fine beers available from brewers (as opposed to chemical factories) it is only ordinary. And the only way to prove the truth of this is to try some of them - which is now not too difficult to do, even in the USA. Incidentally, I try to sample at least one "new" beer every week - but then I live in England where this is easy enough to do. Last Tuesday I tried Hall and Woodhouse Ferret. A nice mid-strength beer with a flowery bouquet. Probably a single-varietal hop brew. Recommended. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
quote: Hey, when did I get lumped together with Richard on the subject of beer ? True I'm very fond of real ale and true I don't like Budweiser but I hardly ever join in the long discussions of the subject that go on here and I have a policy of never bad mouthing a corporation that could sue me using one executive's daily expenses. I hope Richard doesn't mind my saying that while by and large I agree with his sentiment I do think he goes on about it rather too much for a language board. Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben. - Friedrich Nietzsche Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
|
| Member |
I used to worry about this myself until I learnt of the case of MacDonald versus Ms Steele and one other. They libelled McDonald's by claiming that they used inferior ingredients and were guilty of many other evils and McDonald's sued them. McDonalds had a far better claim than would A-B (since they actually use high quality materials with very few harmful additives) but even so, won not a penny piece since the couple said they couldn't afford to pay anything (so we, the taxpayers, met the bill). I would actually be rather pleased to have the opportunity of defending my views in a high profile case such as this would be. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
OK Richard, while I do realize that your opinion will never be swayed on the subject, it is a pity that your palat is so selective as to not be able to appreciate some of the LESS finer things in life. For me, and I think the majority of Americans in my generation, the cheap and the micro-brews have their place. I know that I enjoy both. Most of the time, I just want a beer, an easily drinkable, refreshing, cold beer that that doesn't have sunflower seeds or other such bizarre extras to give it a unique flavor or "flowery bouqet." I also want a beer that doesn't drink like a meal. I may want to have more than one in a sitting. (Sorry Morgan.) Funny story, a friend and I were at a bar a couple years ago, and I was drinking Guinness. He had a Michelob light I think. He made the comment that if Miller High Life is "The Champagne of Beers" as its ad campaign suggested, that Guiness must be the steak and potatoes of beers. And on the other hand, I do enjoy trying some alternative brews as well. I was in Boston for a month a couple of years back on duty with the military, and we found this fantastic bar that I am certain you would love. It is right across the street from Fenway Park, home of the Boston Red Sox. It was called the Boston Beer Works. They only carried beer that was brewed in house, of which there were about 30 different varieties. I think that by the end of the night, I had tryed about half of them. (Hey I was in the Army, what else do soldiers do when given some free time?) But anyways, they were all very good, although by number 7, I doupt hat I was really able to distinguoish one from the other. So, now that I've written a novel, I just want to re-affirm that cheap beer has it's place, as do micro-brews, and Richard, I really do hope that you get a chance to read that article. | |||
|
| Member |
Just to clarify some points which are often misunderstood: 1. Because a beer is a good beer it doesn't necessarily have to be a strong beer (Welton's Pride and Joy at 2.7% (A-B Budweiser is 5%) is a very good and tasty beer. 2. Just because a beer is a good beer it doesn't have to be an expensive beer (in the UK A-B Budweiser is one of the most expensive bottled beers there is - more than Fuller's 1845) 3. Because a beer is a good beer it doesn't have to be a full-bodied beer. 1845 is full-bodied but Fuller's Chiswick is not. Both are excellent beers. The difference between good beer and bad beer is not one of style; it is one of quality. I drew the anology elsewhere about the difference between a Rolls-Royce and a Lada. And the difference between them is not simply style, size or cost. It is quality. Only those who have experienced the differences between good, bad and indifferent can truly understand my point. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
Okay Richard, I guess the only thing left to be said on the matter is that "there is no truth, only perspective." Molson, Budweiser, Corona etc. are good beers because I LIKE THEM. So, here in Buffalo, I raise a pint of "swill" towards the Atlantic and say cheers Richard, to the beauty of our differing opinions. | |||
|
| Member |
We all have a right to our opinions and beliefs. My only (and final) point is that I try never to form an opinion solely on the basis of belief. I like to ensure that I have some facts (or at least experiences) to back up my contentions. I have tried all the beers you mention and don't like any of them. Had I no basis for comparison I might have assumed that all beers are cold, yellow, fizzy, and almost tasteless. And I might have liked or disliked those characteristics. Having drunk many of the thousands of beers that are not of that ilk, I do claim to have a basis for comparison. And that is my point. Try some (many!) different beers and then make a judgement. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
Yes Obi-Wan. (Hey, he was played by Sir Alec GUINESS!) | |||
|
| Member |
quote: [This message was edited by C J Strolin on Mon Sep 29th, 2003 at 11:15.] | |||
|
| Member |
quote:Of course, 192 of those are from your pen, CJ.  My number, as yours, is per the site's search function. Interestingly, when I pop to particular posts from the search, I often don't find the word mentioned. So the search function you and I used may have some glitches. In fact, sometimes repeating the search changes the results. [This message was edited by shufitz on Mon Sep 29th, 2003 at 10:34.] | |||
|
| Member |
Ah, CJ, might I suggest that you check "realbeer.com"? You may find both Kalleh and Richard posting there. Many of the beer posts started here in a thread about beer words--perfectly appropriate. Now, I agree that there have also been a number of non-word beer posts, but then isn't that similar for other subjects (most notably those with a sexual connotation )?My theory is that as long as our board stays focused on words (surely it is), we need not worry about other subjects, especially those that have been both fun and enlightening. However, I may be biased on the subject, as I may be the number one offender for bringing up the beer subject.  quote:I don't know, Shufitz. That number may be right. For example, do you remember CJ's birthday limerick to Richard? [This message was edited by Kalleh on Mon Sep 29th, 2003 at 10:52.] | |||
|
| Member |
quote: 192?? Really? That seems high. Did you actually count them or is there a way to do a search by poster? If so, I'd be curious to see R.E.'s and B.H.'s scores in this regard. In my defense, the large majority of my beer posts have been in response to unprovoked aspersions cast against "The King of Beers" even when I have repeatedly stated I don't think much of this brew myself. Out of politeness, I do not wish to disclose the name of the Wordcrafter who so frequently taunts his non-English brethren on this subject. Suffice to say that he is Real Enthusiastic about British beers. | |||
|
| Member |
quote: | |||
|
| Member |
Yes, CJ; the search screen has a blank where you can specify "Author Name." Unfortunately, the results can inconsistent when you repeat a search. At the moment I get 500+ posts using the b-word, of which 74 are by you and 140 are by Richard. In the last few months though its tapered off, with you, Richard and Kalleh having equal shares of the one hundred most recent such posts. This counts posts; it doesn't double-count for multiple uses of the word within a single post. | |||
|
| Member |
My, my, my, I have awakened the beast in CJ! As for marital sock-puppeting please understand that I am really rather simplistic, especially since I have no idea what marital sock-puppeting even means (though it sounds like Shufitz wouldn't approve! ) The reason I said Richard and Kalleh was merely because those are the names being used on that site, just in case you wanted to validate it. Now, I will grant you that Richard has far more posts than I do there, merely because I know about as much about beer as I know about "marital sock-puppets". | |||
|
| Member |
quote: Ummm... Not quite equal: 21 - Kalleh 20 - R.E. 19 - Myself 11 - B.H. 29 - Everyone else on the board. Considering the fact that I have, on more than one occasion, vowed to lay off this subject, I'm mildly appalled at how miserably I have failed. I only jumped back in this time in support of MrTreetop's recent wise (if somewhat strident) posts. Usually when I see that anyone's post is about beer (Damn, that cranks me up to 20!) I simply pass right over it since it seems that everything has been said and anything further is just more of the same. Life's too short. Oh, and I notice that you didn't comment on Kalleh referring to "Kalleh and Richard" in "her" post. Is this some sort of offshoot to the "Royal We"? | |||
|
Member |
Wait a minute, wait a minute... you guys all completely blipped over the comment about Kalleh's supposed infatuation for dildoes... Where and when were those posts? Not that I'm all that interested... Umm... Did she mention brand names and preferences? Battery life per brand? Again, not that I'm all that interested for myself... See, I have this friend... | |||
|
| Member |
quote: A dildo friend? What is it about me, that everywhere I go talk turns to friendship and dildos? There has to be a word for that. Oh yeah. Easy. heh None of you ever read this. | |||
|
| Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kalleh: The reason I said Richard and Kalleh was merely because those are the names being used on that site, just in case you wanted to validate it./QUOTE] OK, that makes perfect sense. I had given the subject considerable thought and hadn't come up with that possible, not to mention totally reasonable, explanation. The use of the phrase "Kalleh and Richard" in a post clearly identified as being from Kalleh suggested (to me, anyway, though maybe I'm overly suspicious/cynical/paranoid/all of the above, etc) that Shufitz was posting under Kalleh's name for some reason and then mistakenly slipped up by saying "Kalleh and Richard" instead of "Richard and I." Hence the term "marital sock-puppeting. All cleared up. I'll be OK now... | |||
|
| Member |
quote: Sounds like the inspiration to an interesting country/western song. | |||
|
Copyright © 2002-12