I heard an employee today say that the gare-idg door wouldn't open. It took a minute for me to figure out that she said garage! I pronounce it with a shwa and more of an ahhhhh sound, with the accent on the second syllable. Her pronunciation had the accent on the first syllable.

How do you say it?

Well in my local accent that would be

ga - ridge

with the ga having the stress and pronounced as in gap.

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UK English tends to stress the first syllable of two-syllable words so it's usually GA-rage. Whether the final syllable is pronounced "ahj" or "idj" depends on local accent.

Stressing the final syllable would be an affectation by someone trying to go back to the word's French roots!

Richard English

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Stressing the final syllable would be an affectation by someone trying to go back to the word's French roots!

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Another case of US/UK differences. Over here, stressing the first syllable and rhyming it with "carriage" might easily be seen as an affectation by someone trying to appear British.

In my neck of the woods, it's gah-RAHJ or, if you're only slightly pretentious, gah-RAHZ.

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ga - ridge
with the ga having the stress and pronounced as in gap.

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If I were to visit the U.K., I am sure I wouldn't be able to understand anyone with a British accent. I say ga-RAJ (not a hard "J").

I'm sure you would have no difficulty in understanding our accents, although possibly not all of our words.

Just imagine we're actors in a British film (movie) and you'll find the whole experience "simply" enjoyable.

Richard English

I'm not sure how easy it would be to understand my accent. I certainly had some difficulty making myself understood to some Americans and my accent is a relatively mild version, mellowed by travel and living out of the area for long periods. Those Americans who could understand me often thought I was Australian.

The Black Country accent is hardly ever heard in British Films or on British TV so I'd be surprised if many Americans have had much exposure to it.

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Ah, but the Black Country accent can't even be understood by those living in Birmingham!

But seriously, I had also noticed how few Americans can distinguish between UK and Australian accents. I recall an encounter with a beautiful girl I met in Atlanta airport once - the magic was all there and had it not been for the fact that she was going to Chicago (another reason to go there...) and I was going to London - it would have no doubt developed into something memorable! Anyway, she kept telling me how much she loved my country but couldn't get on with the climate and I thought I knew what she was getting at - until she mentioned that it was the heat she couldn't cope with!

"...But I was in the far north..." she remarked. It was then that I realised that she had thought I was Australian!

Richard English

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Originally posted by Richard English:
Ah, but the Black Country accent can't even be understood by those living in Birmingham!

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You're a rare man indeed Richard. Most people in the South of England don't even realise that there's a difference between the Black Country and Birmingham. I've given up hitting people who call me a Brummie. Now I just shake them for a while until the acknowledge the error of their ways.

Still considering that most Londoners seem to think that anywhere north of Watford is in Scotland I suppose they're to be pitied rather than condemned.

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I can even tell the difference between Dudley and Wiolverhampton!

Mind you, I've invested much time in researching such historic buildings as the Crooked House and Ma Pardoe's - not to mention the Dry Dock and Mad O'Rourkes - and one picks up the local dialects.

Richard English

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Originally posted by Richard English:
I can even tell the difference between Dudley and Wiolverhampton!

Mind you, I've invested much time in researching such historic buildings as the Crooked House and Ma Pardoe's - not to mention the Dry Dock and Mad O'Rourkes - and one picks up the local dialects.

Richard English

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I feel it's only fair to board members from the rest of the world (i.e. not Dudley and Wolverhampton) to point out that the establishments mentioned in RE's post are all - you'll never guess - pubs.

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I have to say, I think most Americans are really English wannabes. As a nursing educator, most of my colleagues (unfortunately!) are women. A large group of us got into an elevator with one poor man crushed in the corner. He commented politely (as only the English will do)--with an English accent--and suddenly all the women melted over him, cooing and asking where he was from, why he was here, on & on & on. Just today in the local newspaper in the section on foods (writing about scones), here was the headline:
Blundering American renditions overshadow the original: Trim, tender and oh so very British

And, people have told me that when they have gone to England, much to their surprise, they were not able to understand much of what was said by those who had British accents. As one who has a hard time with accents anyway, I really do think I'd have trouble. I'd probably think Bob's "garage" were some mountain somewhere {ga-ridge).

I still suspect that much of it is to do with vocabulary, rather than accent. Even those with strong accents (Glaswegian, Black country, Newcastle) usually try to be reasonably intelligable when they speak to foreigners (by speaking more slowly, for example).

However, there are many words (esecially jargon and slang) which are unknown in some other forms of English.

I was asked by an American lady, who had just arrived at Victoria from Gatwick airport, which bus she needed to catch to Harrods. Now, the buses at Victoria are just oustide the station in a series of bays and I simply said, "...go to the far bay and catch the one at the head of the queue..."

In the end I had to walk her to the bus because, as I finally realised, she didn't know what a queue, was apart from something used in Pool!

Richard English

Precisely! When Bob used that word in another thread, I had to look it up! You are probably right about the vocabulary, rather than the accent. However, I was in New York once and was completely unable to understand what the man in the toll booth was trying to say to me because of his accent. And--it was his accent, not his vocabulary. Unfortunately, because of it, I was holding up the entire line of cars going over the George Washington Bridge--and got quite a few blaring horns because of it!

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I have to say, I think most Americans are really English wannabes.

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From the AHD (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wannabe)

wan.na.be also wan.na.bee
n.
1. One who aspires to a role or position.
2. One who imitates the behavior, customs, or dress of an admired person or group.
3. A product designed to imitate the qualities or characteristics of something.
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Do you really think most Americans want to be English?

Tinman

It is my belief that the accents of the less well-educated (whatever accent they might be) tend to be more difficult for others to understand, simply because they may take less care with their diction and, what's more have a lesser vocabulary from which to select.

I realise that this statement might be considered elitist and "non-pc" but I have to say that it has been borne out in many years of communicating with many different kinds, classes, creeds and races.

Richard English

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Originally posted by Richard English:
It is my belief that the accents of the less well-educated (whatever accent they might be) tend to be more difficult for others to understand, simply because they may take less care with their diction and, what's more have a lesser vocabulary from which to select.

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Anyone who has ever listened to a well educated Government minister being interviewed will realise that clear diction and a wide vocabulary are no guarantee that a comprehensible result will ensue.

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Indeed, but nonsense is nonsense no matter how it's presented!

Richard English

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It is my belief that the accents of the less well-educated (whatever accent they might be) tend to be more difficult for others to understand, simply because they may take less care with their diction and, what's more have a lesser vocabulary from which to select.

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I agree 100% here, Richard.

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Originally posted by Morgan:

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It is my belief that the accents of the less well-educated (whatever accent they might be) tend to be more difficult for others to understand, simply because they may take less care with their diction and, what's more have a lesser vocabulary from which to select.

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I agree 100% here, Richard.

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There is perhaps something in this but it's a very dangerous road to start down. First of all it seems to be stating that people take less care with their diction because they are less well educated. I'd dispute this, it seems to me to be a slur on people who haven't had the benefits of a "better" education. It may well be true that their vocabulary is poorer but to suggest, as implicit in the statement, that they care less about the clarity of their communication seems an unfounded conclusion. I'd say that it depends more on your need to communicate. If you mix exclusively with people who share your accent then your accent is unlikely to change.

I've heard my fair share of public school educated "Hooray Henries" (and Henriettas, let's not be sexist) whose diction is abominable.

That isn't the big problem with this line of thought though. The big problem is that once you start thinking this way it's a very small step to assume that a strong regional accent implies a lack of education, another small step to assume that it implies a lack of intellegence and another step to assume that it makes their opinions less worthy than those of someone who speaks "properly", another small step to discount those opinions entirely.
Lots of small steps leading to a very big cliff.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that you (Richard) think this way but too many people do.

To move on though, at what stage do people cease to be poorly educated and become well educated? Every child has to go to school until they are sixteen so no-one can be considered poorly educated by the standards of, say, a hundred years ago. The benchmark has changed. Someone who stays until eighteen to do A-levels is obviously better educated (by two years) than someone who leaves as soon as he legally can. Someone who goes on to University is better educated still. This doesn't make the those who left at sixteen poorly educated in any absolute sense, only in a relative sense.

There may be a grain of truth in the RE's original comment but I, for one believe that it is only a grain of truth and that the conclussions which are all too easily drawn from it are specious.

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Absolutely. I would not expect my statement to be taken as 100% accurate or 100% complete.

It is just an observation that contains, at the very least "a grain of truth"

Richard English

Well, Tinman, perhaps I used the wrong word (and on a word board, too!). However, I do think that Americans often see the English as doing things "properly"--just as we would like to do them. I think that we adore the English accent. I know that I love having the English flavor on this board. There is a mystery to the royalty in England, and while we belittle it here often, we also are very intrigued about it. Just yesterday there was a long article about Prince Harry in our newspaper--along with the article on English scones ("how to make 'proper' English scones") and another long article about how England adores Bill Clinton.
So--the word "wannabe" may be incorrect--but infatuation? Intrigue?

Working at the Athens British Council for about ten years allowed me to mix with lots of Brits as well as Australians and South Africans (I was the only American!) In the beginning I had difficulty distinguishing an Irish from a Scottish accent. Towards the end of my stint there I was very proud of myself for being able to tell if someone was from Newcastle or Liverpool or east London. Nonetheless, when I finally visited London in the year 2000 and got lost on the bus somewhere in Brixton, to my consternation I had to ask the bus driver to repeat his instructions to me at least five times! To me it sounded like "thetibsruinniliv", which turned out to mean: "The tube's running now, Love." Nor could I understand the Indian at the news agents when I asked him how much a pack of cigarettes cost. I just hadn't been exposed to the accent. After a few days though, I was able to buy my cigarettes (very pricey!) without a hitch. Tuning in is what it's all about.

Most Brits easily identify me as American, though Americans tell me I sound Canadian or British. I thinking teaching English has a lot to do with that because I have to enunciate and it's also mixing with those Brits for so long. I even say sometimes "I must visit the loo!"

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
So--the word "wannabe" may be incorrect--but infatuation? Intrigue?

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How about--"groupies"?

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against the English, but I have no reason to believe that most Americans want to imitate them or even particularly admire them. Rather, I suspect most Americans have no strong feelings one way or the other toward the English. The media do seem infatuated with English Royalty, but the media is infatuated with anything that will sell.

British comedies are popular in America, but I couldn't guess what percentage of Americans watch them. And I'm sure the comedies don't trully reflect the English. Yes, I do think many Americans are intrigued with the English, and I think that interest and intrigue is probably fueled by the British comedies and English Royalty. I, myself, enjoy accents and learning about differences between different cultures, though I know very little about those differences.

I expect I will hear stories from my son about his visit to England. His girlfriend is English and they visited her parents in Cambridge over the holidays. They also spent a few days in Paris.

I jumped on the word "wannabes", Kalleh, because you described yourself as a "literalist". You're not as much of a literalist as you thought.

Incidentally, I looked up "Cambridge" in the U.S. Gazetteer(www.dictionary.com) to make sure I spelled it right (I always want to add an "e" after the "m") and I discovered there are fourteen towns or villages named "Cambridge".

Tinman

[This message was edited by tinman on Thu Jan 9th, 2003 at 19:34.]

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Originally posted by BobHale:
Anyone who has ever listened to a well educated Government minister being interviewed will realise that clear diction and a wide vocabulary are no guarantee that a comprehensible result will ensue.

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That reminds me of the British comedy, "Yes, Minister".

Tinman

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I jumped on the word "wannabes", Kalleh, because you described yourself as a "literalist". You're not as much of a literalist as you thought

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Tinman, I agree that not all Americans are entralled with the English culture because it is always dangerous to generalize, though I do think many of us are.

However, as far as my being a "literalist" not being related to the term "wannabes", I think you're wrong. I took that term quite literally and perhaps that's why I encountered problems with its definition: I took it to mean "I wannabe English".