Does anyone know what "girl's rowing eight" means? It was in my book, which takes place in the 1930s or so in England. I couldn't even find it in Google.

The Girls' Rowing Eight is probably the feminine version of the Mens Rowing Eight.

Next question?

I agree with jerry. These racing hulls take eight rowers, usually of one sex or t'other, plus a cox (coxswain) who may be male or female. There are also coxed and uncoxed fours and pairs, which I think are uncoxed, but I'm not certain that's always the case.

Photo of a girl#s rowing eight

quote:

Does anyone know what "girl's rowing eight" means? It was in my book, which takes place in the 1930s or so in England. I couldn't even find it in Google.

Was the book set in Henley-on-Thames perchance?

Dr Frederick James Furnivall, one of the three founders of, (and the second editor of), the OED, founded the Hammersmith Sculling Club (today the Furnivall Sculling Club), possibly the first such organization for women (it is now co-ed), in 1896. (During Furnivall's editorship nothing was published, and most of his disgruntled sub-editors quit.)

[Corrected misspellings.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

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During Furnival's editorship nothing was published,

perhaps he was too busy coxing?!

-ron obvious

coxswain

Is nobody else but me disturbed at the etymological redundancy of the s in this word? (Middle English cokswaynne < cok 'cockboat' < Old French coque + swain 'servant' < Old Norse sveinn.) It should either be coxwain or co(c)kswain. (It must be so it's easier not to confuse it with coq au vin or other folks' mullings.)

I don't know if the editors of the OED Online are disturbed by it, but they do mention it: "The spelling coxswain (which would more logically be coxwain, since cox = cocks) has in the present century quite established itself in ordinary use." It says that cockswain is "the earlier and etymological spelling of the word now commonly spelt COXSWAIN n." My guess is that cock was replaced by cox during a puritanical fit of cleaning up the language. Earlier I quoted some of Hugh Rawson's comments about the word cock, in case anyone is interested.

There is quite a variety of spellings in the quotes:

{alpha}1463 cokswaynne
1481-90 kokeswayneCock-swaine Cockswain
1842[/i] cockswain[i]

{beta} [b]1626 [i] Coxswaine
1748 Cocxswain
1871 coxswain

{gamma} 1626 Coxon
1660 Coxon
1708 Coxen
1769 Cockswain Coxen

1882 Coxwainless
1885 [i]coxswainship[i]

quote:

Originally posted by tinman:

I don't know if the editors of the OED Online are disturbed by it, but they do mention it: "The spelling coxswain (which would more logically be coxwain, since cox = cocks) has in the present century quite established itself in ordinary use." It says that cockswain is "the earlier and etymological spelling of the word now commonly spelt COXSWAIN n." My guess is that cock was replaced by cox during a puritanical fit of cleaning up the language. Earlier I quoted some of Hugh Rawson's comments about the word cock, in case anyone is interested.

There is quite a variety of spellings in the quotes:

{alpha}
1463 cokswaynne
1481-90 kokeswayne Cock-swaine Cockswain
1842 cockswain

{beta}
1626 Coxswaine
1748 Cocxswain
1871 coxswain

{gamma}
1626 Coxon
1660 Coxon
1708 Coxen
1769 Cockswain Coxen

1882 Coxwainless
1885 coxswainship

I don't know if the editors of the OED Online are disturbed by it, but they do mention it

Disturbed or not, I'm in good company.

My son Duncan rowed in a men's lightweight eight for Drexel University in the '90s. Their cox was a woman of tiny proportions. (The cox rides in the bow of the boat yelling "stroke, stroke, stroke, stroke..." through a megaphone to keep all eight rowers rowing in the same rhythm. Otherwise, they wouldn't go as fast, and there'd be a lot of "crabs." That's when the oar doesn't enter the water smoothly and there's a splash. Coxswain pronounced "cox'-in," but generally just called "cox." The average weight of the 8 rowers has to be no more than 160 pounds per rower for the men's and 130 pounds for the women's lightweights, and many of the rowers were just on the brink, so there was a lot of starving before races, and it was therefore important that the cox was as light as possible. However, the cox had to meet a certain minimum weight, and if she didn't, she was weighted down with sandbags until she met the requirement. Pairs and fours are not coxed. I guess with that few rowers they can keep in synch with each other more easily than an eight.

I used to love to go to their regattas along the Schulykill River in Philadelphia. Our boys never got a first at the Dad Vail Regatta, the "Schuylkill Navy's" major event each spring, and so never got to go to Henley, but they did well, overall. It's the heavyweights who get all the press, anyway.

Wordmatic

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Our boys never got a first at the Dad Vail Regatta, the "Schuylkill Navy's" major event each spring, and so never got to go to Henley

My mother used to live in Henley, so Regatta Week was a regular fixture for us. The rowing was fun, of course, but there were other attractions, not least of which was Brakespear's wonderful ales - sadly no longer brewed in Henley as the brewery was sold for development (although the beer is still brewed elsewhere).

Well, since this part of the book ("Atonement" by Ian McEwan) took place in the 1930s or so, I am not sure it would be related to the men's rowing eight.

Here is the sentence (long as it is!) where the phrase is used: ""She had been educated at home until the age of sixteen, and was sent to Switzerland for two years which was shortened to one for economy, and she knew for a fact that the whole performance, women at the Varsity, was childish really, at best an innocent lark, like the girl's rowing eight, a little posturing alongside their brothers dressed up in the solemnity of social progress."

Now...that's what I call a sentence!

Henley Regatta was a century old by the time that book was written!

See here: http://www.hrr.co.uk/

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Well, since this part of the book ("Atonement" by Ian McEwan) took place in the 1930s or so, I am not sure it would be related to the men's rowing eight.

It's definitely the same sport, but officially recognized women's rowing was very young at that point. Sounds as if the author was scornful of the idea of women rowing in competition and felt they could have no serious intent in doing it. But that was 80 years ago. I have to say that the rowers I have known, both men and women, are dead serious and hugely competitive!

And now reading rowing websites, I realized I was wrong about fours--they are either coxed or coxless. Eights are always coxed and twos and singles are not.

What was interesting to me in the Wiki article is that college rowers are part of the US Rowing organization and US Rowing is part of FISA, and they are not governed by the NCAA, but women's rowing is. Interesting.

Wordmatic

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Eights are always coxed and twos and singles are not.

There is no such thing as a single rowing shell. Single rowers would go round in circles as they would have only one oar! It is the scullers who use two oars.

yes I knew the singles had two oars, but had forgotten some doubles had two oars per rower.
The first time I called my son's 8 a shell, he said, "It's just a boat, Mom, not a shell." Googling around, I found this, which does reflect that "shell" is less common in the US and it looks as if there are other differences in rowing terminology as well. After college, my son joined a rowing club and bought a used single, in which he sculled, with two oars--but he never called it anything but his "boat" and never called his exercise of choice anything but "rowing." And singles racing is part of competition at least in US Rowing, but I think also in international.

Well, I guess that's it then. BTW, Richard, the book takes place in Surrey, England.

The rowing references must relate to the Thames, then, since that's just about the only river in Surrey that's large enough for competitive rowing events. Although the Thames is considered London's river, the various counties do border it. Surrey's Council Offices are at Kingston-upon-Thames and, although although Kingston has been part or Greater London for some years, it is still geographically in Surrey.

Henley-on-Thames is on the same river, of course, but is further upstream.

Generally, in the UK, single and pairs racing scullers (two oars each) use a shell. Rowers (one oar per person) use a hull or a boat. Boat is used as a generic name covering the two, but if I were to refer to a particular sculler's boat when watching a regatta, I would quite probably find myself firmly told by someone with a florid complexion wearing a brightly-coloured blazer that it was a shell, not a boat.