Shu and I bought a fabulous new book, "In Other Words" by Christopher Moore. It is marvelous! He discusses intriguing words from across the world.

He mentions in the section about French words that linguists have a term called "false friends" for those words that seem to translate with no problem, but the turn out to have quite different associations. He mentioned "intellectuel" which embodies admiration in French. Then he said something I found curious...the Brits and Americans consider anything associated with being "clever" with suspicion. What exactly does he mean, do you think? Does he mean all words associated with being clever? If so, I think not. If he is only talking of the word "clever," I will say that it does have a certain amount of "shrewdess" in the definition here in the U.S. However, I thought in England it mainly meant "mentally quick" or "ingenious."

What do you think?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

I wouldn't say intellectuel is a false friend: it means the same as intellectual; but there's a cultural difference in how intellectuals are regarded. Me, of course, I regard intellectual as an entirely positive term.

I also use clever to straightforwardly mean intelligent or ingenious. However, I'm aware that for many people cleverness has (also?) a negative connotation of perhaps sneakiness or glibness. I don't know how fixed this is -- am I out of step and being misunderstood if I continue to use clever as an unironic synonym for intelligent?

False friends are normally cognates that have different meanings: attender meaning 'wait for'.

Journalists , in particular, have a way of calling a person an intellectual as shorthand for "ivory tower intellectual"; someone who may well have excellent theories that don't work in "the real world". As such there is a slightly pejorative and sneering sub-text to their use of the word.

There is a tremendous distrust of knowledge in this country and I cannot imagine the phrase intellectual being used with anything but contempt in 90% of our media. We let imbeciles guide us on diet and health, and are allowing a distinct distrust of science to develop. Our students favour courses in Film Studies and Psychology to anything practical. The thickest person in the country is first in line to throne, with the holder of third place currently trying his hardest to take over the title. Rant over.

The thickest person in the country is first in line to throne Sure is true here. (Rant over.)

I possibly am out of step, too, but, like aput, I only regard "intellectual" as a highly positive term. I suppose our media uses it to mean "ivory tower" too, sometimes, but other times it is regarded positively in the media, I think.

As for "clever," it does have a connotation of "wiliness" here.

There has been a long history of anti-intellectualism in the US. Richard Hofstadter wrote a marvelous book on it: Anti-Intellectualism in American Life. Still in print.

The newly-revived Take Our Word For It site has a good example of a "false friend"; on their Words to the Wise page they discuss the origin of embarrass:

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Melanie speaks some Spanish. In her days of youthful naiveté, she would sometimes turn English words into Spanish, assuming the two forms were cognate. However, embarrass in English and embarazada in Spanish, while cognate, diverged in meaning some time ago. If Melanie announced demurely to a dinner party that she was embarazada, she would be telling them all that she was pregnant!

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Arnie, that is a great example.

I was trying to find more on the Web, and I found this Finnish Web site about "false friends." One of the examples this site gave was "fagotti" in Finnish, which means "bassoon." Of course they compared it to the English word "faggot." If I recall, "faggot" is also a word for food in England, right?

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." If I recall, "faggot" is also a word for food in England, right?

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Right. It is a sort of meatball. It can also mean the kind of stick used when lighting a fire, so someone might go out in the woods to pick up faggots.

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It can also mean the kind of stick used when lighting a fire, so someone might go out in the woods to pick up faggots.

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Isn't that the original meaning, or close thereto?

I, too, think of "intellectual" in a positive sense, although the politics of this country shows me to be in the minority.

Isn't fag also used in England as slang for cigarette?

Quote "...Isn't fag also used in England as slang for cigarette?..."

Occasionally, but it is rather old-fashioned slang these days. Certainly teenage girls (the main growth area for smoking it seems) would be unlikely to use such slang since it's an expression that their grandfathers would have used. There will be some current slang, I feel sure, but I know not what it is.

I, too, think of "intellectual" in a positive sense, although the politics of this country shows me to be in the minority.

Asa, I think of the intellectuals as those who write books or develop theories, or as those who are professors or scientists, etc., but I surely would never use that term with the politics of the country so to me that is a moot (using the definition arnie hates!) point. I see the intellectuals as sometimes leading the changes that politicians eventually make, though it often takes a lifetime before those changes are made, and that is too bad. I see many here as being "intellectuals."

CW, my dad had always called cigarettes "fags." I am surprised to hear of it as British word.

Re. anti-intellectualism.

Try telling people you're a member of Mensa. I no more shout it from the rooftops than I do my membership of other clubs / charities / whatever, but if the subject comes up (e.g. if someone asks how I met a particular friend, or the obvious am I a member of any clubs), I'll mention it. People are generally curious, but you do get a hell of a lot of diparaging comments, usually in 'joke' form. I was even advised once that, whereas you can put membership of, say, an orchestra or sports team (both of which require you to pass a certain standard or test) on the 'extracurricular' bit of your CV, it's best not to put Mensa membership in case it looks like 'showing off'. What's the difference? Why is it OK to be honest about musical or sporting ability but not intellectual ability? And what is there to show off about? Although the following is a debatable point, to a large extent we have no control over how musical, sporty or brainy we are (to continue with these examples) - we're born with certain aptitudes and, although we can work on improving ourselves, no matter how much work I put in on the piano, I'm never going to be the kind of musician Paul McCartney is (but I'm better than my brother, who has no interest) - and my slim frame is at a disadvantage in strength / throwing activities, but at an advantage in speed / jumping events. Likewise, I have about as much control over my IQ level as I do my eye colour - less, in fact, thanks to coloured contact lenses.

It does annoy me that so few people grow out of the 'school swot' mentality, with intelligence so often synonymous with geekiness (is that a word?) or even arrogance. In fact, the most arrogant people I've met are those who've pompously (with no trace of tongue in cheek) declared: "I don't need to take the Mensa test; I already know I'm clever". Well thank God for that guys, 'cos Mensa doesn't want idiots like you.

It's perhaps telling that I only found out about another member of this board being a member by accident; sadly I've become wary of mentioning my membership even when it's appropriate (as exemplified above) - I don't want to deal with the kind of unpleasant jibes that jolt my confidence. Although sometimes I think my life would be easier if I didn't think so much(!), I'm grateful for my intelligence - but I'm under no illusion about how little I actually had to do with it.


And while we're on the subject of false friends, I was once talking to friends in France about how superior French bread is to the stodgy, preservative-ridden sliced stuff we get in the UK, and I just stopped myself in time from saying that British bread is full of condoms! Préservatif is French for condom; the word I was looking for (and fortunately found) is conservateur.

Cat, the bread story is fabulous! How funny!

Welcome back, Cat.

One of the troubles with intelligence is that many people confuse is with knowledge. You could be very intelligent and also very ignorant; conversely you could be very knowledgeable and also very stupid.

That these combinations are probably unusual (because, in my experience, intelligent people tend to have enquiring minds and thus seek information) does not mean they are impossible.

I've known several really intelligent, knowledgable people who seem to have no practical common sense. My uncle is an excellent example. He is amazingly gifted, worked for GE for many years. He was one of the men who invented and perfected a way of manufacturing quartz crystals. However, can he remember where his glasses are or buy new shoes? Probably not.

I want to add my voice to the welcomes, Cat! I hope your illness is a thing of the past!

I too attempted to join Mensa, but I failed the physical.

Lol, Asa!

Thanks for all your welcomes. I'm getting back to normal (for me) now, but still have a long way to go to reach normal (for the average person) good health. Onwards and upwards, as they say (and when I find out who they are, I'll tell them to stop talking in clichés).

'Tis good to be back

Good to see you back cat.
Of course you know already that I don't need to be a member of Mensa because I'm universally acknowledged as being too clever for my own good.

As this is the topic false friends I would like to ask a question.
One of my friend treats me like dirt and it does hurt she is also very decitfull but just too me. Would you call her a friend?

Is this Rachel by any chance?

No Alexandra

Although this is not a "self-help" site, I would crave the administrator's indulgence to offer you some grandfatherly advice.

Friends who treat you badly are not worth bothering about. There are plenty of good people, many of them on this site.

Make frends with them and don't let the others bother you; life, as you will realise when you get old, is too short.

Going back to the original post of this thread, whilst I would avoid nasty political arguments I nevertheless must point out that the US currently has a Prez who has made political hay out of being a hay seed. He has abjured any appearance of being intellectual, embracing bad grammar, mispronunciation (It's NOO-CLEAR, DAMMIT!), and "interesting" syntax. The general public laps it up, and heaps derision on the likes of Kerry et al who at least could put together a coherent sentence without the assistance of five speech writers and a teleprompter.

Dubya's hick act is just that, an act. I've heard some of his speeches from his first gubanatorial campaign, and he sounded rather ocrrect and collegiate. I'm not saying anything about his intelligence but he used to be able to speak coherently.

jheem, I read that somewhere recently, too. I wish I could remember where, but it surprised me.

GWB, like all top political figures, has had top-quality training and uses top-quality speechwriters. Much of his rhetoric comes straight from the Winston Churchill textbook - though Winnie used to write his own material.

Incidentally, was anyone else surprised to see that the US establishment suddenly seems to be trying to distance itself from the IRA (Irish Republican Army) - to the extent that Gerry Adams has not been invited to the White House this St Patrick's Day?

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was anyone else surprised to see that the US establishment suddenly seems to be trying to distance itself from the IRA

A prime example of the title of this thread.