When I first heard this expression (I think on TV), I giggled. I thought the person using it was being facetious and making sexual innuendoes. Then I started hearing it more and more often and saw that the people using it didn't realize they were using a non-standard word reversal. Does anyone know how this expression got started? Do people consider it quaint? Casual? Sexy?

The "do" and "for" reversal isn't what first caught my notice; rather, it was "can" instead of "may." Whenever someone asks me, "Can I help you," I reply, "I have no idea, but you may if you can." Very few have any idea what I've said.

Now, on to your question: I've assumed it to be a sexy innuendo, and because I've long thought that "innuendo" was Italian/American slang for "buggary," I've fled the scene.

quote:

innuendo -- slang for "buggary"

My supposition had been "suppository".

It started off as a sexual innuendo, and now is just a whimsical way of saying the very common "what can I do for you?" I'm sure if you asked, they would know if was non-standard, but it is common enough that I don't think anything of it.

Well, Heptune considers it a "chessy use of American English."

Well, Heptune can go suck an egg. I think it's just a jocular way of saying "Can I help you?" It sounds like something that would have originated in the country or, perhaps, the South. I doubt that the original meaning was a sexual innuendo of any kind, but it's possible, especially if it first appeared in a movie or a vaudeville or routine. I see little difference between "Can I help you?" and "May I help you?" True, one is asking about ability and the other for permission but, in reality, they mean the same thing. You could even argue that "May I help you?" is presumptous, in that the phrase tacitly implies the person assumes he or she is able to help. You can also argue that the person who says "Can I help you?" is asking if there is something he or she can do to help, rather than for permission. You can also just forget about arguing and accept it either way.

There! My little diatribe is done!

Tinman

yeah, I saw that Heptune page, Kalleh. Truth is, I thought a lot of the analyses were pretty funny and quite accurate. They voiced that nagging feeling I sometimes got with these expressions but wasn't able to put into words. Who is this Heptune gal anyway?

As for the can/may issue, that was something that my parents used to hammer away at and it drove me crazy. Every time I asked "Can I do this, that or the other?" they would say, "Yes, of course you can." And I would get all excited and ready to fly. And then came the clip of the wings: "But you may not." It got me every time.

I agree with tinman. I think we just have to accept that nowadays, in this sense, 'can' is standard. In fact, in some situations 'may' might even sound pretentious.

I usually just avoid the whole problem and say "Are you finding what you need?"

Tinman and Muse, I find your reasoning un-can-y!

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the can/may issue

The thing I find interesting is that there is no question of ambiguity in the cases where pedants find glee in correcting those of lesser grammatical sophistication. In a way, and to my mind, it is just a way to embarass the speaker in front of her peers. Just a slightly snootier way of saying: "My, my, but aren't you ignorant." That people say can over and over again where others would have may simply demonstrates that in some dialects of English may is obsolete, like shall and ox.

That having been said, it is interesting that the grammatically correct (GC) simplify may beyond its meanings. May has other meanings than allowance and permission. For example, it changes the mood of a verb like rain (which we have seen in another thread is a strange subjectless verb): It may rain tomorrow. (Just who is granting privileges here, Jove?) There are others more subtle, for which see you favorite lexicon.

I generally suggest in my training sessions that people greeting customers are better advised to avoid closed questions like "Can I halp you" as they can all to easily be answered "No thank you". I suggest they use instead an open question or phrase that invites a fuller response which is more likely to lead into a sales conversation.

quote:

Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
Tinman and Muse, I find your reasoning un-can-y!

Thank you . . . I think.

Tinman

I don't mind when a store clerk (excuse me, they're "sales associates" now) says, "Can I help you?" What bugs me is when they say, "How can I help you?"

Tinman

OK, Tinman, aren't you being bugged by the same issue that I am, but phrasing it differently? The corporate slave is still asking you to be a mind reader!

Asa the pedant

We've had that may/can discussion before, here and originally here.

I have learned a lot from this site, and one thing I've learned is not to be so persnickety about the use of words, like may/can.... I suppose I used to be a bit like zmj's description.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard English:
I generally suggest in my training sessions that people greeting customers are better advised to avoid closed questions like "Can I halp you" as they can all to easily be answered "No thank you". I suggest they use instead an open question or phrase that invites a fuller response which is more likely to lead into a sales conversation.

In situations such as these, I have used the opening line, "How may I be of humble servitude to you?" It brings a smile and if you can do that, you're halfway home.

I rather like it when sales people ask if I need help. I HATE it when they launch into an immediate hard-sell for items I may or may not want or need without any provocation on my part. I might as well stay home and talk to phone solicitors.

I also like it when clerks ask if they can help because they often can save me time. It always annoys me to shop with my daughters (my son doesn't do shopping!) because they detest it when I ask a clerk for help. I will never forget the time we were in a huge Borders, and my daughter was looking for a fiction book that had been popular, but she couldn't recall the name or the author and thought we should just leave. She did, however, remember what the cover looked like. I insisted that I ask the clerk about it. She was sooo embarrassed as she knew that he'd never know the book by that description. Bingo! He went right to it!

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"How may I be of humble servitude to you?"

I'd grin and give that salesperson some business!

quote:

I HATE it when they launch into an immediate hard-sell for items I may or may not want or need without any provocation on my part. I

So do I.

Good selling is about meeting the needs of the customer and the supplier to the utmost satisfaction of both. Hard selling is about meeting the needs of the supplier only.

But the opening remark is more important than people realise in any sales situation and the simple "Can I help you?" is often less effective and creative of rapport than some others greetings (of which "How may I be of humble servitude to you?" would be an example)

The best salesman at the gardening equipment store where I work often opens with something like, "Hello, If your have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them for you." How does that sound to you?

quote:

Hello, If your have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them for you."

That's pretty good since it's not actually a question and leaves open the possiblility of a further comment.

The problem with "Can I help you" is that the customer can (and many do) say "No thank you" and that really closes the conversation and it's difficult for the salesperson to ge back.

With the "...Hello, If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them for you..." approach it leaves the opportunity for the salesperson, after a respectable pause, to come back in with another comment, tailored to the possible demands of the customer, which might advance the conversation.