Member |
Many Wordcrafters will know of "Strunk and White", the bible of prescriptivists and anathema to descriptivists. There's a revised version of Strunk's original Elements of Style produced by John Cowan available at http://www.ccil.org/~cowan/style-revised.html Note that the later, more didactic, pronouncements added by his acolyte, E B White, are not included. It certainly reads much better and far less presciptively than "Strunk and White". The revisions and excisions of the original 1918 version are shown at http://home.ccil.org/~cowan/style-diff.htmlThis message has been edited. Last edited by: arnie, Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | ||
|
| Junior Member |
It's despicable. | |||
|
| Member |
How so, William? It's only restoring and updating your original "little book", removing the stuff added after your death by White. Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
|
| Junior Member |
From the Reviser's introduction (2006): When using English properly, there are rules that never change. and Obsolete? Erroneous (how dare him!)? Idiosycratic? How insulting, especially for a chap who is making money on my original publication. Don't you have laws on that? and That was my favorite chapter! However, I am pleased that he, and now everyone else on this board (particularly that renigade Kalleh!), finally realizes this: I also found this humorous since Geoffrey has been one of my biggest critics:
| |||
|
Member |
Revising a thread... This is an excellent article by Geoffrey Pullum lamenting Strunk and White's Elements of Style. There is much in the article I loved, but particularly this part about the passive voice: I can't imagine writing scientific reports without using the passive voice, though sometimes I've been asked to write funny sounding sentences just to avoid the passive tense. Ridiculous! I also liked the comment about however. If I dare to start a sentence with however at my place, it gets changed. I once asked our editor about this and she said, "My English teacher told me never to start a sentence with however." Now I know why; she was as student of Strunk and White! I always thought Strunk and White to be blowhards who pontificated about minor points, but until this article I hadn't realized how much in error they were. Of course, I know E.B. White was an amazing author and in his writings he eschewed most of the rules he cited in the book. So I forgive him (just not Strunk!).This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh, | |||
|
Member |
I would seem that the designers of the spelling and grammar tools in Microsoft Word use the Strunk and White "rules", since, by default, this tool catches passive sentences. Fortunately it's possible to turn that rule off. As I have said many times on these pages, there are many times when the passive voice is the right voice. Lack of directness in communication is not always a fault; it can be a significant virtue. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
Here's the relevant section from Elements of Style. I'm not sure if they're saying that those non-passive sentences are passive. They're just saying to use the active voice instead of a construction with be. On the other hand, constructions with be are active, so what they're really saying isn't "use the active voice", it's "don't use be".This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy, | |||
|
| Member |
I'd not read the work previously (I prefer The Times Style Guide). But it seems to me that those who decry the use of the passive voice, city "Elements of Style" as an authority are misreading or misunderstanding it. The sentence "This rule does not, of course, mean that the writer should entirely discard the passive voice, which is frequently convenient and sometimes necessary." seems to be quite explicit; there are times when the active voice is better than the passive and vice versa. The next time a "passive voice objector" objects to your using the passive, Kalleh, tell him or her to re-read the Element of Style. Richard English | |||
|
| Member |
I don't think I'd advise anyone to reread Strunk and White. It's just too bossy about things that make little difference. I have been thinking, though, about people who argue against Strunk and White (or other similar diatribes). It's interesting how in one breath they say they adamantly oppose their principles, but in another they say they use the same principles (such as ending sentences with prepositions) in "formal" writing. | |||
|
| Member |
Where are these people? | |||
|
Member |
Pullum Geoff Pullum was interviewed about S&W on NPR (link). Erroneous (how dare him!)? That should be "How dare he!", unless, of course, English has gone ergative-absolutive overnight. It's also a forzen use of a present subjunctive verb form. —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
|
| Member |
Ah. I carefully chose that phrase so as not to irritate people. Here risks the irritation: Sometimes I think those who consider themselves descriptivists say that they disagree with much of what Strunk and White says, and yet they admit they take the advice in formal writing. Perhaps I'm too black and white, but I think it should either be something that's important or not. It shouldn't depend on the context, at least in my humble opinion. Nice links, Z. | |||
|
| Member |
But I don't know anyone who says they adamantly oppose these rules but they use them in formal writing anyway. Speaking for myself I think some of the rules are silly, and some are simply more formal - but more formal doesn't mean wrong or right, it just means more formal. It completely does depend on context. The correctness of any language depends on the context in which it is used. | |||
|
| Member |
Well, I suppose the difference is that I don't think there should be a big difference between formal and informal writing. Perhaps I am more of a perdescriptivist then.  | |||
|
| Member |
So you think that the language I use in an email or blog post should be no different from the language I use in a journal article? How prescriptivist of you  | |||
|
| Member |
I'd hate to review all my posts about this because I am sure I waver back and forth. The truth is, of course there is a difference between formal writing and informal writing or speech. I just go back and forth on this. I always struggle with descriptivism because I tend to be more black and white. That's a mistake. | |||
|
| Member |
I always struggle with descriptivism because I tend to be more black and white. I don't think that the use of register (speaking or writing differently in different contexts) can be blamed on descriptivism. It's just a simple fact of language. We tend to speak or write differently depending on our audience, the topic, etc. —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
|
| Member |
I agree with that. There's no blame here. I just sometimes struggle with what's accepted where. It's not the descriptivists' problem; it's mine. | |||
|
Copyright © 2002-12