I have only heard the "slicker than" comparison used in referring to the condition of icey, snowpacked roads.

As the stuff on the doorknob will dry, the ice and snow will melt and disappear.

In the "test" I came out 63% "Dixie." I don't consider it to be a valid or reliable test.

More entertaining than scientific.

Speaking of "Dixie," I once had a cousin by that name. Born in the late 1940's (or, to avoid a debate, "the late fourties"), Dixie was part of a Catholic family back when it was almost unheard of to not name children after saints. There was no Saint Dixie, obviously, so my cousin caught all sorts of hell in one Catholic school after another when each and every authority figure she ever encountered insisted that "Dixie" had to be a nickname when, in truth, it wasn't.

She turned 50 not long ago and finally fulfilled a lifelong wish and had her name legally changed to "Dixon." But I ask you, is that an ugly name or what??!!

Dixon? It sounds fine as a last name (I know a couple guys with the last name "Dixon"), and it sounds terrible as a first name for a woman. It wouldn't be bad for a man's first name, as in "Dixon Hill". I like the name Dixie. Tell her to change it back.

I had an aunt whose name was Willie Mae. Willie was a common Southern name for a woman (my aunt was born in Louisiana). My aunt didn't like it, though, because it sounded like a man'a name. She moved from Louisiana to Kansas to Washington, and I don't think any female born in Washington is named Willie. So she changed it to Willa. Then everyone called her Jackie. My Dad liked to say that he went to the station to see his sister-in-law, Jack, off on the train. He thought that was a great joke.

I scored 68 % Dixie. A couple questions I didn't even answer. I'm kind of a hybrid, though. I was born in Kansas and spent my first 7 years there. Then I moved to the sticks in Washington, dragging my parents and siblings with me. Then, in the '60s I went to college in Missouri, returning to Washington in '69.

Tinman

Yes... since you asked me.. it's a horrible name for a woman. It sounds like the name of a street or a building.. or someone's LAST name.. Cousin Dixie sounds like a lot of fun; Cousin Dixon sounds like you better watch your p's and q's...

Tinman, you outposted me by 2 minutes!

I also had the Dixie quiz sent to me by numerous people.. I think I ranked as Rbt E Lee's great grandchild..

My neighbor, when I was a youngster, had an aunt named Fanny Butts! How's that for the name no one would want..?

I always loved the name of one of my husband's southern classmates: Georgia June Goldberg!

Now, I just finished a book written by an Irish author and taking place in Ireland. I have some questions about word use that maybe you Brits would know. Neither I nor Shufitz had seen them used this way:

1) Sunned: "Agnes sunned the idea."
2) Husting: "He ordered a couple of the marshals to build a makeshift husting."
3) Snug: "The rule in Madigan's Pub is that women will only be served in the snug."
4) Muff: "Here's to Friday night, I hope I get a hand on me muff.

I can only answer three I'm afraid. The Dublin area has its own slang and also some speakers can have an accent which is pretty well impenetrable to outsiders. I have no idea of the meaning of sunned.

However, a husting was the word used for a platform from which a candidate for an election spoke during a public meeting. In a wider sense (and usually in the plural form, hustings), it means the election process itself. It comes from the Old English hfisting meaning a court or assembly. In the example cited it is perhaps used to mean just a platform.

The snug is/was one of the bars in a pub. Almost all pubs would have at least two bars. The Public Bar would be where the working men would drink, and the Saloon (or Lounge) Bar was where the monied classes would imbibe. Beer was a penny or so cheaper in the Public, but the furnishings were more basic. Some pubs (especially in Ireland) would have additional bars, and the snug is one such. It would usually be smaller than the other bars, and quite comfortably furnished. Often it would be composed of small booths so that drinkers had some privacy. In the days when no real lady would dream of being seen in a pub, those women who frequented such establishments were often only allowed into one of the smaller bars such as the snug.

Muff Errmmm... This is a family forum.

The female genitalia, or perhaps more properly pubic hair.

[This message was edited by arnie on Tue Feb 24th, 2004 at 6:56.]

A snug is a small room. To be snug is to be warm and comfortable.
Hustings were elections.
Your muff or muffler is a furry sleeve to keep both hands warm, not what you were thinking.

Arnie replied while I was composing, far more fully and precisely. Perhaps I should have read the examples more closely as he is right over muff and not me. I very much doubt that the poor lass could keep both hands warm in the muff she was referring to.

I have only known "muff" to be a warm covering (often fur) for hands. Perhaps I should have guessed from the context that it wasn't for tender ears!

So, none of us knows about that use of "sunned," right?

As many of you know by now, Shu and I are traveling to England in April. Richard wrote me an e-mail with some ideas of what to do and where to go, and in one he said, "You can get a pint and a pie for lunch."

Well, that was up for discussion at my place of work. What does Richard mean by "pie?" We all knew that he didn't mean pie the way we use it, that is, a filling in a pastry. I truly didn't know what he meant, though my assistant thought he meant "pizza pie." Yet my husband thinks he means "meat pie." Any clues?

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Yet my husband thinks he means "meat pie."

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That's it. A pie is a filling, usually supposed to be meat of some kind, wrapped in pastry. Most pub pies are famously inedible, but I'm sure Richard knows a source of decent pies.

In the past pies were about the only food you could get in many pubs, but nowadays a lot of pubs, particularly ones in city centres, serve quite a decent menu.

[This message was edited by arnie on Thu Feb 26th, 2004 at 11:03.]

Are they like chicken pot pies? Or, Shepherd's pies?

Chicken can certainly be an ingredient, although steak or steak and kidney pies are probably the most common. I don't know what a "chicken pot" pie is like, so I can't tell.

Shepherd's pie is not really a pie in the way I defined it above, as it contains no pastry. It is usually made from minced lamb or beef (probably lamb is original, otherwise it would be called "cowherd's pie"), and vegetables, of which carrots are the most common. On top of these ingredients is spread a layer of mashed potato before the pie is baked in the oven.

I do think us English are being wound up here. How can you not know what a pie is? You have Mississippi mud pie and pumpkin pie, don't you?

The ultimate pies are of the course the Cornish Pasties made by my Grandmother: beef, salt, onion all wrapped in pastry. The worst pie is also Cornish and called Stargazey Pie.

The expression "a pint and a pie" is nicely alliterative rather than literal. Pubs do sell pies, usually meat, but nowadays they will sell a much greater range of food than that.

It's a fair bet that the best lunchtime meal in a city centre will be available at a good pub. We do, of course, have fast-food outlets as well but I always prefer the pub.

Richard English

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I do think us English are being wound up here.

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Sorry, Graham, but there is no winding going on. Of course, we know what a pie means, in our country. We have apple pie, pumpkin pie, French silk pie, cherry pie, and it goes on and on. Yet, surely Richard wasn't suggesting that Shufitz and I have that kind of a pie and a beer for lunch!

Beyond that, we do call it "pizza pie" sometimes. Do you? Yet, we would not refer to a meat pie as a "pie." I am fairly confident that no American here will disagree with me on that.

So please don't feel wound up!

Kalleh, I will come to your defense here. Few meat dishes in America are called pies. "Pie" is usually a dessert word... I'm familiar with Shepherd's Pie, but it's definitely British. I make a cheeseburger pie, which is certainly All-American.

Those meat pies Graham Nice talks about sound wonderful... just very hard to find in the States!

We never say Pizza Pie in the South... sorry

The food in England is just very different... that's the thread.. Cultural Differences... I enjoy the difference!

Does anyone want to talk about grits?
Or Ice? No where in London could I find ice..
But I loved London!! Kalleh, I hope you and The Shoe Fits have a great time.. I wish I could go.

Just for the record, we don't talk about "pizza pie". Pizza is unusual in that it came to us via America. The Italians obviously invented it, and took it to America, who in turn exported it to us, along with burgers, fries, and Kentucky Fried Chicken.

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who in turn exported it to us, along with burgers, fries, and Kentucky Fried Chicken.

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Sorry about that!

Also for the record, in talking about the dessert pie, we wouldn't say, "Would you like a pie?" We would say, "Would you like a piece of pie?" A fairly common franchise that has good pies is Baker's Square here. They are one of the first restaurants to offer half pieces of pie so that you can have a small piece without eating 750 kcals.! Now, small desserts are becoming very popular here now, and I just read an article giving the top 10 places with the best "small desserts."

Pies can be of differing sizes. The savoury pies served in pubs are usually baked for consumption by just one person, so are relatively small. Those intended to be eaten by a number of people are of course bigger, and are cut up on serving.

We would probably offer someone a "slice of pie", rather than a "piece of pie".

I hadn't realised that US pies were usually sweet. We have both sweet an savoury pies here and meat pies have been popular for years - although I understand that there was a temporary lapse in their popularity when Sweeney Todd was working in Fleet Street!

Richard English

quote:

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Does anyone want to talk about grits?
Or Ice? No where in London could I find ice..

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Mmmmmmm. Grits! KHC, do you put butter or hot sauce or jelly on your grits? Man, I haven't had any in ages; now I'm craving some.

I thought it was odd in Australia that there wasn't ice anywhere. Not in restaurants in the water; no fountain drinks at gas stations. Only one place we stayed at had an ice machine. (Yep. I said 'stayed at'. So shoot me.)

But we did have a meat pie that was to die for. Actually, the food was pretty bland, so by the time we had that pie, we were desperate for flavor. We even put the mushy peas in the mashed potatos on top.

This reminds me of a trip my family took to Vancouver, where we ate a "British Pub" style restaurant. They served stuff like bangers and mash, etc. One of the items was "Toad in the Hole". I knew that I knew what it was, but my mind went blank. My dad asked the waitress what it was, and she said, "It's sausage in a pudding."

My dad looks at her incredulously. "In a PUDDING? What's in the pudding?"

She's looking at him oddly, "Well, you know... flour and water...."

My dad says, "So it's PASTE?!? You want to bring me a sausage in paste? Umm.. I think I'll just have the bangers and mash."

She's walking away, shaking her head, obviously thinking, "Those stupid Americans are lucky I'm Canadian and very polite."

Then my brain cleared. I yelled out, "Oh that's right--it's like pigs in a blanket!!!!"

Are there really nations so deprived that they don't get to eat Toad-in-the hole?

You'll be telling me they don't get faggots and peas pudding next!

Richard English

Yes, it's interesting that pudding, like pie, has become sweet, rather than savory, in the US. I've never had toad-in-the-hole, though I've seen it mentioned, likewise with spotted dick and bubble and squeak. Someday perhaps.

Please, RE.. enlighten! I thought faggot was a slang term for cigarette in England.. not something to eat.. ... and I'm very familiar with mushy peas, my neighbor was English, and we ate her huge (the size of dimes!) peas all the time.. they certainly had texture...

WinterBranch, grits are only grits with butter and salt, and, if you're lucky, cheese! Yum! I even eat oatmeal with butter and salt.. I don't want sweet breakfast food.

We had a very lucky room service waiter in London, who was paid handsomely, twice a day, for pitchers of ice.. He thought we were insane.

Also, I should know, but what is spotted dick? It doesn't sound appetizing..

The slang term for a cigarette in England is (or was, since it is now more or less obselete) fag, not faggot. A faggot is a savoury meat dish made from offal (similar to, but more juicy than, Haggis). Peas pudding is mushy peas mashed up.

Spotted dick is a sweet suet pudding with raisins in it.

And why would you need pitchers of ice brought to a room? Surely it's easy enough to turn the heating down if it's too hot. And if you need a drink of water, what's the matter with the tap (faucet)?

Anyway, with a decent pub within a few minutes' walk of any London hotel, who wants water - except to wash in!

Richard English

RE,
In the South, we are just accustomed to ice... Ice in our Cokes, Ice in our tea (except when it is hot), Ice in our water.. it doesn't matter the Season. I was in London in Dec/Jan...I certainly wasn't hot, but I still craved ice in my drinks. Cultural differences..

We are not all alike!

I agree with KHC, here. Even in different parts of the states, restaurants are stingy with ice water. I even like a few cubes in my coffee, as I can't drink it when it is too hot.

Thank you, Kalleh!

These tough Europeans are hard on American softies!

Indeed. My comment was tongue in cheek!

I had noticed this strange US desire for ice. When I stayed at the St Regis in New York in 1979 I was amazed to see that it actually had iced-water taps (faucets) at the sink. They didn't work but I assume that, when the hotel was built in about 1910 they did.

I still can't understand the need, though - especially in a cold climate.

Richard English

Ice-cold water in the Regis reminds me of my first trip to the UK in the summer of 1976. As the temperatures approached 40, I couldn't understand why the buildings didn't have air conditioning or why many grocery stores lacked refrigeration. Anyway, NY is pretty hot and humid during the summer and autumn.

RE,
It is not a strange desire for ice... it is a culturally endowed one.. ... We think it is "different" that England doesn't like ice. Even our cheap motels have a free ice machine.. ! Most of Europe is stingy with ice... or so I hear.

I like cold drinks, even when it is cold outside.. so sue me.

However, I could still live in London w/o ice... I would "make do"...

Well, that depends on what you mean by Europe!
Europe is a continent, not a country, and any two Eurpoean countries will be far more different one from another than any two US States.

We're not great ones for ice in our drinks in England (although it has become more common in the last thirty years or so - mainly as a response to the demands of visitors and the changed expectations of English travellers to Mediterranean countries.

In hot countries it is very much more common; in cold countries less so.

Richard English

However, Richard, KHC does make a point. Cultural differences are not strange, just different. I, for one, love some of the UK/US differences, such as spellings of "honour" or your use of the word "keen." However, I would never be so bold as to say they were strange.

And if you were to order an ouzo at any self-respecting ouzeri (place that serves ouzo and a variety of side-dishes), it would be served along with a bowl full of ice and a spoon, no matter what the temperature happened to be. Ouzo is so strong that most drink it watered down and with at least one ice cube. I've been fortunate enough to witness a little trick performed by the true ouzo afficionados: they place a knife on the brim of the ouzo glass and then balance a piece of ice on it (it must be very cold). Then they pour the ouzo over it into the glass. The clear ouzo magically clouds over. This is just enough water for them.

Oddly enough the ONLY place where I have been served Ouzo without ice was in Athens - in a bar in Constitution square.

I was surprised and asked for some but the place had none. So it was ouzo with warm Athenian tapwater!

Richard English

That's highly unusual, Richard. They must have thought you were a dumb tourist! Little did they know, of course...

Again, from Bob's article on "What is a Word?" I learned that the British call acronyms like "BBC" or "FBI" an initialism, not an acronym. It makes sense, really. An acronym to the Brits is when the resulting form can be pronounced like a regular word, like NATO and AIDS. Furthermore, the Brits don't capitalize an entire acronym as the Americans do. For example, for the Brits it would be Nato and Aids.

Is that correct?

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the Brits don't capitalize an entire acronym as the Americans do

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Not quite correct, in that it would be better phrased " the Brits don't always capitalize an entire acronym as the Americans do".

We see acronyms treated as ordinary words (Nato, Aids) by some writers, but others retain the capitalisation (NATO, AIDS).

Quote "... the Brits don't capitalize an entire acronym as the Americans do ..."

As I understand it, The Times uses upper and lower case for acronyms when it feels they have become words in their own right. So radar and laser - and now Abta - the Association of British Travel Agents - are rendered as words.

At present CAMRA has not yet been accorded that distinction.

I read an interesting article about our Amish settlers. Interestingly, they call non-Amish people in the U.S. "the English," according to this article.

Now, we just need the accent!

I have checked with my friend Stewart (a linguophile who hasn't yet visited this board) and he confirms this about the Amish, whom he has stayed with.

In his own words:, "...Yes, the Amish do refer to non-Amish neighbours as "English"; old habits die hard!..."

Ye of little faith!

Am I completely nuts, or are all breakfasts exactly the same in the UK? juice, eggs, sausage (looks very strange & I haven't tried it!), bacon (very thin ham to us Americans), cereal with whole milk, tomatoes, baked beans (?), and sometimes mushrooms.

We have been in a hotel in Birmingham, London, and in the dorms in Oxford, and all breakfasts are exactly the same.

That's a fairly standard hotel breakfast here. Better establishments might have additional items including such stange foreign affectations as cheese (the Germans like that for breakfast) and grits (which I believe is something the Americans like - although we put it on our roads).

Hash browns (a US import) are becoming more common - but how can you have cereals without whole milk? Use half-milk?

Kalleh,

Surely there was toast available? Toast is about the only thing I can face for breakfast most mornings.

Oh, I missed this, arnie. Yes, toast seemed big in England, I forgot! They even brought these slice holders to put it in (name for them?), and they had the best jams and preserves. Of course, like Paddington Bear, I love marmalade.

Now, I have a question about the differences in spelling between the UK and American cultures. I have especially been attuned to the differences because I find myself writing "honour" and the like in my everyday writing, because of this board, and I have to be careful.

Usually people in England change the "c" to an "s," right? E.G. "practise" versus "practice." So, here is my question: I wonder how it happened that you wrote "defence" and then we changed it to "defense."

Quote "...They even brought these slice holders to put it in (name for them?), ..."

They're called toast racks.

Quote "...they had the best jams and preserves..."

Although some will argue, to my mind the ONLY two spreads that should be on the English breakfast table are marmalade and honey. Jam is NOT eaten at breakfast time!

Quote "...Usually people in England change the "c" to an "s," right? ..."

The rule is a simple one with few exceptions (defense being one). The "se" ending denotes a verb, the "ce" ending denotes a noun.

A practice is a firm or organisation such as a medical practice. To practise means to try out repeatedly in order to learn.

The rule is a simple one with few exceptions (defense being one). The "se" ending denotes a verb, the "ce" ending denotes a noun.

Oh, now that makes sense! However, I surely have never seen the word "practice" by someone in the UK. Do you really use it? Is there a rule with "s" and "z," as in "organization" versus "organisation?"

I don't think we have "toast racks," but then maybe I am too sheltered.