Do you say that something is "in shambles" or "a shambles" or, like a Boston Globe columnist, that it's "in a shambles"?

Nathan Bierma had an interesting column today on the word "shambles." Interestingly, the word came from a Latin word meaning "bench or stool." It then evolved, in Middle English, to a word meaning "table for selling meat" and from there to "meat market" and then "slaughterhouse. Of course, now it means a "scene of disorder or devastation." One question that apparently hasn't been resolved is whether it is a plural or singular word. The dictionaries are varied on that.

I would say something is "in shambles," but I'd not say "in a shambles," and I can't say I've ever heard it used singularly like that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh, February 12, 2008 20:07

Kalleh, from your own Roger Ebert, reviewing Hitch, "Meanwhile, his own romantic life is in a shambles."

I'd say "in a shambles". "In shambles" just looks wrong.

And I wouldn't use "in" at all. I'd say "It's a shambles". I might add an intensifier. For example, "It's a total shambles."

Either a shambles or in a shambles. I've never heard the one wihtout the indefinite article.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I would say something is "in shambles," but I'd not say "in a shambles," and I can't say I've ever heard it used singularly like that.

I would have said "in shambles" too, like "in ruins". Maybe this is a Wisconsin thing. What's the German equivalent?

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And I wouldn't use "in" at all. I'd say "It's a shambles".

Yes, I might well use that form as well, but only sometimes.

Well, if you read Bierma's article that I posted, all three are common, "in shambles," "in a shambles" (though perhaps less so), and "a shambles."

I certainly realize that this is neither a scholarly look at the use nor a scientific way to look at it (thus not reliable), but putting all three ways in Google shows this:

"In shambles" - 940,000
"A shambles" - 582,000
"In a shambles" - 495,000

Perhaps it's a midwest usage, neveu, I don't know. I suppose I could get Bierma's opinion on that. Paul Brian seems to agree with those of you who don't like "in."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh, February 13, 2008 20:21

Of course, if your were in The Shambles, you'd be in York! http://www.insideyork.co.uk/shambles

The meaning of all three forms is clear, but I would prefer "it's a shambles".

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Originally posted by Richard English:
Of course, if your were in The Shambles, you'd be in York! http://www.insideyork.co.uk/shambles

Yes indeed, and as Richard's picture shows it's such a narrow passage that you need to avoid scraping your elbows. Or if you live upstairs you can shake hands with your neighbour opposite as you proffer your 'Good Morning' greeting.

Hmmm... coming from Appalachia (WVa) originally and Central Florida now, I only recall hearing it as "a shambles." But you really can't count anything about language from Central Florida and further south... it is not very southern here.

Lala

Of course we can count central Florida and further south...they all speak English, after all. I just find it interesting how the use of the word differs.

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they all speak English, after all.

There are some who might disagree...http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/nicaragua/1105/myfairlady.html

I've always heard "it's a shambles" or "in a shambles". I love the history of York, RE - that was fascinating. Add that street to my list of places to visit when I finally get to the UK!

Yes, Richard, immediately after I posted that I realized the error of my ways. Florida, especially, has many non-English speakers. I just meant that English in the south is just as important as that in the east, west or north.

English in the south

Some southern US English dialects are older than some in the Middle and West, at least.

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Yes, Richard, immediately after I posted that I realized the error of my ways. Florida, especially, has many non-English speakers. I just meant that English in the south is just as important as that in the east, west or north.

I was joking - my reference was to Professor Higgins who, in "My Fair Lady" said, "...There are even places where English completely disappears - in America they haven't spoken it for years"

Professor Higgins

Shaw based the character of Professor Higgins in part on the English philologist, Henry Sweet (a nice biography of Sweet link).