I hope Richard won't mind if I rewrite his original question in the form of a poll. I'm actually quite interested in the answer but the other thread has wandered a long way off topic.

Can I ask that questions about Bryson's motives and peoples responses to his annecdote be kept in the other thread.
Thanks.

Question:
Here's the scenario stripped of everything but the question I'm interested in.

A large branch has fallen from your tree. You are tying it to the roof of your car to haul it away to the dump. Bill Bryson wanders past.
He says
"Hi, I see you're camouflaging your car."

Which of the following most represents your immediate response.

Choices:
1. I'm American. I know it's a joke but it isn't funny.
2. I'm not American. I know it's a joke but it isn't funny.
3. I'm American. I know it's a joke and I think it's slightly amusing.
4. I'm not American. I know it's a joke and I think it's slightly amusing.
5. I'm American. I know it's a joke and I think it's hilarious.
6. I'm not American. I know it's a joke and I think it's hilarious.
7. I'm American and I don't understand him. Does he really think that I'm camouflaging the car?
8. I'm not American and I don't understand him. Does he really think that I'm camouflaging the car?
9. Some other response. Please specify what it is.

 

I certainly don't mind your recasting my post, Bob. My only concern is that the preponderance of Americans on this board might skew the results.

But we'll see.

I'm an American, and I consider it to be funnier than "slightly amusing," but less amusing than "hilarious." My immediate response to Bill Bryson would be "I WISH!" in hopes that he would laugh at MY joke!

Wordmatic

quote:

Originally posted by .,,:
I consider it to be a mongrel joke that failed.
A mongrel dog is a dog of mixed parentage and therefore unknown traits. A pit bull terrier has the propensity for aggression while the labrador is quite the opposite so a mix of the two would result in a mongrel dog that may be either or both and therefore unpredictable.
This joke is told from mixed cultural viewpoints requiring word and cultural associations potentially not in the grasp of the audience.

.,,

.,, I'd take it as a personal favour if you'd discuss the annecdote in the other thread. I'd hate two threads to go off topic on the subject.

I am only too pleased to oblige.
Anytime, all you need do is ask.

See ya

.,,

I would be very angry at Bill making a joke about my beloved oak tree being damaged.

I'm with Wordmatic here, and I said that in the last thread.

Richard, there isn't a huge preponderance of Americans here. We actually have quite a nice mixture when you consider our size. I always am amused when Tswum comes here to ask British questions; after all, AWAD has over 5,000 registrants!

I suppose one could work it out by examining each person's profile - providing he or she has published the information. But it would be interesting to know what the proportions are; my impression is that we have far more US members.

Well, Richard, it would be hard. Some post here regularly; others post here fairly often; others more occasionally; still others never have posted here and only signed up; lastly, there are those who posted for awhile and then quit. Beyond that, quite a few posters don't indicate their location.

However, having said all of that, I think the truth is somewhere like 70% Americans and 30% others. I have no idea if that's right, though. I suppose with that percentage you are right that there is quite an American preponderance. However, those from other countries are louder.

Could someone please explain to me exactly why this is a joke?

quote:

Originally posted by Seanahan:
Could someone please explain to me exactly why this is a joke?

I doubt that will be possible but as you asked I will have a go.

America is at war.
People at war often camouflage their military vehicles.
Back in ancient times like when I was a boy some military vehicles were camouflaged by tying tree branches all over the vehicle to change the Shape, Shine, Shadow, Silouette, Spacing and Movement of a vehicle.

A bloke doing nothing made a joke comment to a bloke who had just had a storm rip his tree apart that the storm ravaged bloke looked like he was preparing for war. Har har.

I suspect that the audience was not correctly warmed up for that wonderfully insightful little zinger and responded as I often do to wise mouths by po facing them and accepting their surreality as their reality and questioning their intelligence.

As to the punch line. I am stumped.
I initially thought that it was a jibe at Americans not laughing at war jokes but this has been pooh pooed.
It has been suggested that the butt of this joke are the English who laugh and clap at all jokes. This sounds a bit difficult to swallow as the actual audience were English and in England at the time.

I don't really know except that I don't think that it is a joke at all and so the whole question and or poll is an hysteron proteron.

There is a world of difference between an unfunny joke and a snide observation.

.,,

Do I really need to point out that the above post represents an opinion which, according to the poll results, is NOT shared by the majority of the board including ANY of the Americans who have so far commented.

No one else has previously noticed the alleged "war reference". The annecdote, as I have said before dates from considerably before 9-11 and so CAN HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT UNLESS BRYSON IS CLAIRVOYANT. (I'll read the books again and locate it specifically if I have to!)

There are two separate things being discussed and there are, perhaps intentionally, being conflated by .,, into one.

Was Bryson's remark to his neighbour funny?

Is his anecdote about having made the remark funny/appropriate/indicative of anything concerning US/UK senses of humour?

THESE ARE UNRELATED QUESTIONS.

.,, is (apparently) taking umbrage at the nonexistent offensiveness of a trivial remark on behalf of an entire nation of which he is not a member.

In answer to the question "why is it a joke", it isn't. It's one of those pointless remarks we make all the time.

A colleague coming to work dressed all in black might elicit "Going cat-burgling later, Tom?" (I do not for a second belive that Tom is a cat burglar. He does not take it as a slight and does not punch me.)

A friend tripping going upstairs could cause me to remark "Drunk at this time of the morning, Joe?"
(I do not believe that Joe is drunk. He too fails to punch me for the remark. He knows that alcoholism is a serious problem ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO MY REMARK.)

My brother visiting in an unusually bright shirt, "Angie left the colours in with the whites, Ray?"
(He does punch me. That's brothers for you. What can you do?)

My neighbour digging a hole in the garden, "I thought I hadn't seen your wife recently."
(No, my neighbour isn't disposing of the body. But his response, "Well I was intending to build a patio anyway." indicates that he hasn't taken any offense.)

Someone stocking up on catfood in the supermarket, "Dinner party tonight, Ron?"
(And needless to say Ron doesn't serve catfood at his parties. Or maybe he does. Tastes good enough anyway.)

Even something like,

A friend in hospital with two broken legs, two broken arms, sevral fractured ribs and multiple lacerations and bruising having been run over by car might get an unsympathetic, "Jeez, the things you'll do to get out of going to work."
(Of course, he's VERY unlikely to punch me, in the circumstances.)

Someone tying a tree to the roof of a car, "Camouflaging the car, Fred?"

These are the daily routine remarks that everyone of us makes. Tell me you never make remarks like this and I won't believe you.



I'm starting to believe that .,, is making trouble solely for the sake of it, and I intend to cease reading his rantings forthwith.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BobHale,

quote:

.,, is (apparently) taking umbrage at the nonexistent offensiveness of a trivial remark on behalf of an entire nation of which he is not a member.

A friend in hospital with two broken legs, two broken arms, sevral fractured ribs and multiple lacerations and bruising having been run over by car might get an unsympathetic, "Jeez, the things you'll do to get out of going to work."
(Of course, he's VERY unlikely to punch me, in the circumstances.)

I'm starting to believe that .,, is making trouble solely for the sake of it, and I intend to cease reading his rantings forthwith.

So .,, is not a member of the American nation and neither am I. That means we do not see thigs as an American sees things. Our upbringing and our culture are totally alien to Americans, as American culture is totally alien to us. And the same goes for British culture.

Your remark about the hospital friend would certainly mean the loss of one good friend in Spain; or several good friends, if someone else heard that remark. It wouldn't be considered here an unsympathetic "daily routine remark" but a deadly insult.

You can read or not what .,, writes in his posts. That's your privilege.
Mine is not to read yours.

I suggest that neither of you comes to live in England. You will be offended all the time. These remarks are heard a hundred times a day from everyone living here. They are made by everyone and to everyone and the response from the injured person in the bed would be a wry smile and a reply along the lines of "Well working next to you all these years I have to try something."
The hypothetical other friends overhearing the remark would just by ticked off because they hadn't said it first.

These form a good percentage of the standard conversation of most of the British people and all you have done is confirm Bill Bryson's view that as nations we all have different senses of humour.

Please feel free not to read my posts. In fact, can I point out that the board has a rather clever feature that allows you to not even see them. Just click on my name to the left of this post and then click "Add BobHale to my ignore list."
Bob

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BobHale,

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:
I suggest that neither of you comes to live in England. You will be offended all the time. .

These form a good percentage of the standard conversation of most of the British people and all you have done is confirm Bill Bryson's view that as nations we all have different senses of humour.

Please feel free not to read my posts. In fact, can I point out that the board has a rather clever feature that allows you to not even see them. I can't recall how it works having only ever had call to use it once but I'm sure one of the others will give yyou the necessary instructions.

Bob

Oh, I wouldn't ever go to live in England, far too wet for me. In fact it's the other way round, there are thousands of English people coming to live here - and keeping well apart from the local native community, if I may point it out.
They seem rather offended by our sense of humour and our way of living and eating.

Bill Bryson's point of view is not exclusive. I know, and have known for years, that people from different nations see things differently.

I don't need the feature you mention at all; You were the one who was offended by .,, remarks.

quote:

hilarious

Can the person who voted for hilarious tell me why exactly they think so? I'll accept the most trivial of reasons, but I just have to know.

quote:

These are the daily routine remarks that everyone of us makes. Tell me you never make remarks like this and I won't believe you.

I'm sure I've made remarks like that before, although it isn't really my style. These days, the more common remark is "The X called, they want their Y back". Still, these remarks are never actually funny.

For the record it wasn't me. My own vote was "I'm not American and I think it's mildly amusing".

I've recently been listening a lot to the old Tony Hancock radio series and they are just chock full of this kind of remark. My own favourite is this exchange

Bill: It's raining again.
Hancock:Is it? So that's what's making the roads wet.

I guess the "hilarious" vote was mine.

I am happy with my Sense of humor, which I see as a comfortable and enjoyable ability to see humor almost everywhere.


Isn't that funny??????? LOL

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:
Do I really need to point out that the above post represents an opinion which, according to the poll results, is NOT shared by the majority of the board including ANY of the Americans who have so far commented.

G'day Bob,
Nope.
There's no need.
My language and style indicate that I am not American and if that is not good enough the really incisive can check on the location of Melbourne, Australia.
How the hell can my opinion be that of an American on anything?
My opinion is apparently shared by the American living in America who was the butt of the remark.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:No one else has previously noticed the alleged "war reference". The annecdote, as I have said before dates from considerably before 9-11 and so CAN HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT UNLESS BRYSON IS CLAIRVOYANT. (I'll read the books again and locate it specifically if I have to!)

My I point out to you that America has been on a war footing since way before the buildings fell down.
There was a bit of a brouhaha in The Gulf with General Stormin' Norman and his troops and a litany of incursions prior and since.
Why is all the focus on September 11?

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:There are two separate things being discussed and there are, perhaps intentionally, being conflated by .,, into one.

No confusion on my part.
I have a hard time discussing an alleged joke without considering if it is funny and if I consider it to be not funny then I must examine it to see if it is a joke. This failed twice.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:Was Bryson's remark to his neighbour funny?

Not to the neighbour who is an American living in America.
Not to me living in Australia and not to Alexa living in Spain and not to at least one American contributing to this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:Is his anecdote about having made the remark funny/appropriate/indicative of anything concerning US/UK senses of humour?

This I would love to know as the anecdote does not contain a joke worthy of any amusement other than about the teller.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:THESE ARE UNRELATED QUESTIONS.

THESE ARE RELATED ANSWERS TO THE UNRELATED QUESTIONS.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:.,, is (apparently) taking umbrage at the nonexistent offensiveness of a trivial remark on behalf of an entire nation of which he is not a member.

I am glad that you have dismissed the potential offensiveness of the remark.
I am not taking umbrage. I am exploring a concept.
The remark is innoffensive and trivial to you but you have no idea of the history between Bryson and the neighbour. We have no idea if the neighbour lost something of great personal value as a result of the tree branch falling.
How is this an UNRELATED QUESTION?

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:In answer to the question "why is it a joke", it isn't. It's one of those pointless remarks we make all the time.

This is weird.
Of nine possible responses six contain the phrase, 'I know it's a joke'
We is not me.
I am 50 and have seen more than enough of life to know that Seinfeld type sarcasm is only maybe funny on TV.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:A colleague coming to work dressed all in black might elicit "Going cat-burgling later, Tom?" (I do not for a second belive that Tom is a cat burglar. He does not take it as a slight and does not punch me.)

Or in mourning at the death of a loved one.
Nope I will pass on that little ripper.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:A friend tripping going upstairs could cause me to remark "Drunk at this time of the morning, Joe?"
(I do not believe that Joe is drunk. He too fails to punch me for the remark. He knows that alcoholism is a serious problem ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO MY REMARK.)

Just can't see the funny part.
Aussies will say something stupid like, "Enjoy your trip?" or "You have to lift your foot up to make stairs work!" or suchlike.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:My brother visiting in an unusually bright shirt, "Angie left the colours in with the whites, Ray?"
(He does punch me. That's brothers for you. What can you do?)

This is cool and I have seen a variation of this on The Simpsons where Homer was committed to an Insane Asylum as a punch in the arm. Hillarious in context.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:My neighbour digging a hole in the garden, "I thought I hadn't seen your wife recently."
(No, my neighbour isn't disposing of the body. But his response, "Well I was intending to build a patio anyway." indicates that he hasn't taken any offense.)

Yup. Standard joke. No problemo. As above.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:Someone stocking up on catfood in the supermarket, "Dinner party tonight, Ron?"
(And needless to say Ron doesn't serve catfood at his parties. Or maybe he does. Tastes good enough anyway.)

If this is a stranger you would be well advised to not have your hands in your pockets at the time as you may shortly be busy.
I could not imagine engaging a stranger in this manner.
A joke with a friend is a cat of a different hue.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:Even something like,

A friend in hospital with two broken legs, two broken arms, sevral fractured ribs and multiple lacerations and bruising having been run over by car might get an unsympathetic, "Jeez, the things you'll do to get out of going to work."
(Of course, he's VERY unlikely to punch me, in the circumstances.)

A lovely comment and heard in recovery wards the world over.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:Someone tying a tree to the roof of a car, "Camouflaging the car, Fred?"

Another unrelated branch on the roof story perhaps?

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:These are the daily routine remarks that everyone of us makes. Tell me you never make remarks like this and I won't believe you.

You won't believe me anyway. You have closed your mind to me and that suits me fine.
I do not find jokes insinuating that your colleagues are drunken thieves or that strangers serve cat food are to my taste in any event

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:I'm starting to believe that .,, is making trouble solely for the sake of it, and I intend to cease reading his rantings forthwith.

Sweet!

.,,

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:
I suggest that neither of you comes to live in England. You will be offended all the time. These remarks are heard a hundred times a day from everyone living here. They are made by everyone and to everyone and the response from the injured person in the bed would be a wry smile and a reply along the lines of "Well working next to you all these years I have to try something."
The hypothetical other friends overhearing the remark would just by ticked off because they hadn't said it first.

Done and done. The climate sucks anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:These form a good percentage of the standard conversation of most of the British people and all you have done is confirm Bill Bryson's view that as nations we all have different senses of humour.

Thank Christ for that.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:Please feel free not to read my posts. In fact, can I point out that the board has a rather clever feature that allows you to not even see them. Just click on my name to the left of this post and then click "Add BobHale to my ignore list."
Bob

You must have a ripper of a sense of humour considering that you have lashed yourself to the mizzen mast and have gone to the trenches over a slack attempted joke by a travel writer.
I will ignore no one. I learn more from my mistakes than from my successes. When I am right all I learn is what I already knew but when I am wrong I learn something new.

.,,

Okay, Alexa and .,,, may I suggest that you each review our Tips for New Members post in the Community thread.

This is a small forum, unlike many others, and generally we'd rather you work things out with each other, than to ignore others' posts. You are both so new that I am surprised to already see this even being discussed. Get to know us! We really are friendly!

Now, back to the subject...as I had said previously, I never took that joke to be related to war. Sean, I found it mildly funny, but surely not hilarious. Why did I find it funny? Of all the reasons to be have a branch tied to the car, comouflaging your car would seem to be very low on my list. Slightly funny. Not hilarious (at least to me).

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Okay, Alexa and .,,, may I suggest that you each review our Tips for New Members post in the Community thread.

Dear Kalleh,
I will not speak for Alex. She is a big girl and well capable of swinging her own bat but I am downright offended by your insinuation.

I demand to be shown which post I have made that is in any way in contravention of your rules?
I have not threatened to ignore anybody!
I have not accused anybody of ranting on!
I have not said taht I will stop reading anybody!
I have not suggested that a person go back to other forums! (That's gotta be against the rules)
I have not suggested that other members go back to other forums that they have been banned from.
I have not insinuated that any of the writers here are plagiarists.

What have I done wrong to cop this public warning from the administrator?

Must I accept this public hummiliation or be banned?

May I suggest that the base canards cease unless there is some substance to the accusations.

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:This is a small forum, unlike many others, and generally we'd rather you work things out with each other, than to ignore others' posts. You are both so new that I am surprised to already see this even being discussed. Get to know us! We really are friendly!

Who is talking about ignoring? Certainly not me! Please clarify this!
The post of mine immediately above your little moderator's input has placed my position quite clearly.
You have already interjected into an at that time fascinating dicussion about the nature of art and indicated that Richard English would stop contributing to the thread.
I will check but I think that his contributions did not increase from that point.
What was wrong with the discussion to that point?
Who had shown disrespect or antagonism or bellicosity up until that time when it went oddly pearshaped?

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:Now, back to the subject...as I had said previously, I never took that joke to be related to war. Sean, I found it mildly funny, but surely not hilarious. Why did I find it funny? Of all the reasons to be have a branch tied to the car, comouflaging your car would seem to be very low on my list. Slightly funny. Not hilarious (at least to me).

If the joke is not related to war what is the camouflage reference linked to?
I have no knowledge of the use of vehicles in a camouflaged state other than for war.
It is illegal to hunt from a vehicle in so many places that the concept of driving up behind a deer in a station wagon covered in tree branches did not occur to me but I am obviously weird!

This place is real friendly I can see already.
I am warned to take BP meds for what.
May I translate that to remove the euphemisms and acronyms and contractions.

Why don't you take some drugs and calm down.
This is friendly? Give me a break. This is snide and an attempt to score smart mouth points with a standard insult.
I won't even fall back on the old saw that my father died when I was 19 because he refused to take his blood pressure drugs because that has happened to a huge percentage of the population and such 'jokes' are often not in good taste until the victim of the joke has become well known.
I am a newbie and I am being warned to behave while I am subject to the most intense hazing.
Good luck with that by the way. I am not averse to admitting guilt when guilty but I get a stiff bloody neck when I stand falsely accused and I will bend my knee to no one.

I had asked Kalleh specifically to do this type of thing by way of private message but my message was not received.
I hope it has been received loud and clear now.
Had you approached me in private I would have responded in private but you chose to try to cause cause me to lose face publically and I am left to wonder just whose face is now lying on the cutting room floor.

Robert Maurice Bennie

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Okay, Alexa and .,,, may I suggest that you each review our Tips for New Members post in the Community thread.

This is a small forum, unlike many others, and generally we'd rather you work things out with each other, than to ignore others' posts. You are both so new that I am surprised to already see this even being discussed. Get to know us! We really are friendly!

Beg your pardon, but I have clearly said I was not going to ignore anyone.
I don't need to review anything, and I have done nothing against your rules.
Maybe it is that your concept of friendly differs from mine; "don't come live to my country" is not a friendly remark in my book.

quote:

Oh, I wouldn't ever go to live in England

You never know, Alexa, you might like it - there are 60 million of us that do. Of course, the British have had a love affair with Spain for many years (so different from the way we regard France!) and we send huge numbers to Spain every year both to holiday and to live. I myself have been to Spain twice in the past year and will be there again in November.

And so far as the weather is concerned (we don't have a climate, of course - only weather) well, if you don't like the weather - just wait until tomorrow!

If you change your mind about visiting, let me know and I should be delighted to meet you - as I have met other Wordcrafters. Sadly, my next visit to Spain will not take me to Granada.