'I won't say I told you so, but...' or 'I won't SAY you're a crook...'(but I think you are is implied).

There is a rhetorical name for these devices. My friend and I couldn't come up with it. Can you?

Is seems a bit like irony, as simple as that sounds. The definition of irony is, as sung brilliantly in an opera in Futurama is "The use of words expressing something other than their literal intention". You are saying "I'm not going to", when in fact you are.

The closest I can find is anantapodoton.

aput, I couldn't find "anantapodoton" in the online dictionaries (including the OED), and your link doesn't work for me. It is an intriguing word though.

Plus, no one has written an OEDILF limerick on it, and I'd love to!

*is puzzled*

Link is to Silva Rhetoricae, whose main page is http://rhetoric.byu.edu/

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
aput, I couldn't find "anantapodoton" in the online dictionaries (including the OED), and your link doesn't work for me. It is an intriguing word though.

Plus, no one has written an OEDILF limerick on it, and I'd love to!

You seem to be having linking problems just lately. If I were you I'd check all the settings on my computer carefully. The links all work fine when I try them.

quote:

The links all work fine when I try them.

And for me.

The link worked fine for me, too. However, the word given is 'anapodoton', not 'anantapodoton'.

I was having annoying computer problems last night here in Vermont and wasn't able to log onto Wordcraft until about 10 p.m. at night. That must have been the problem because all your links work for me now. Sorry.

Thanks for that word, aput! I hadn't known one existed for that meaning. It must be quite obscure since it isn't in most dictionaries.

The site shows stresses on the an and the po; do you know which is the major stress? I want to write an OEDILF limerick using that word. Thanks!

Anantapodoton is given there as a specific form of anapodoton, closer to the required sense. I'm not surely that it is entirely right yet. There's another device to cover pretended non-references like 'I will not speak of his many virtues'.

You couldn't possibly put primary stress on anything more than four syllables from the end, of any English word. It would have to be -pod- then.

quote:

You couldn't possibly put primary stress on anything more than four syllables from the end, of any English word. It would have to be -pod- then.

Aput, could you please explain that? Are you talking about "anantapodoton" or "anapodoton?"

Kalleh, the link aput has provided takes us to the entry 'anapodoton' and the term 'anantapodoton' is listed as a related linguistic device, a minor variation.

The meanings of both boil down to more or less the same thing. They come from the Greek verb 'apodido', which means 'to give, to attribute to'. In the case of 'anapodoton', the prefix 'an' reverses the meaning, so it is 'that which hasn't been attributed'. In the case of 'anantapodoton', the 'an' prefix has been affixed to the word 'ant-apodido' which means 'to give back, to pay back', so with the negative 'an' prefix, it is 'that which hasn't been paid back'. Which of course makes perfect sense! It's the clause that makes a promise and never makes good on it.

I'd say the phrases you mention, Kalleh, would fall in this category, in that the expected clause is not mentioned (but readily understood). But they are also ironic because the implied clause contradicts what the mentioned clause says.


PS So nice to be on vacation and finally have time to browse my beloved wordcraft!

Muse, it is so great to see you back! We all have missed you. We love you here, so whenever you get the chance to post, please do so!

quote:

You couldn't possibly put primary stress on anything more than four syllables from the end, of any English word. It would have to be -pod- then.

Muse, or anyone, it was this statement that confused me. What is that pronunciation rule?

Although I did a little research, I haven't been able to find a clearly worded rule. I'll give it a try.

Words in English can carry primary stress up to the third syllable from the end, what is called the antepenultimate syllable. If a word is stressed on a syllable before that, say, the fourth from the end, then a secondary stress slips in. (Some phonologists even speak of tertiary stress). We just wouldn't be able to pronounce the word otherwise. This secondary stress is usually indicated in phonemic script with a low stress mark. Take the word 'secretary' for instance. The Americans pronounce it: SE-cre-TA-ry. (Primary stress on 'SE', secondary stress on 'TA'. The Brits avoid this problem by merging the last two syllables, so they say: SE-cre-try.

So, in both words, 'anapodoton' and 'anantapodoton' the primary stress is most probably on the third syllable from the end, that is, on the syllable 'po'. I'd hazard the guess that in the word 'anantapodoton' there is a secondary stress on the first syllable of the word: AN-an-ta-PO-do-ton. That is also the way we would pronounce it in Greek.

Does that help? Can't wait to see that limerick!

Ahhh, muse, it isn't one of my best. I am waiting for some help from workshoppers, though mine are usually last in line because I am neither new nor do I have many limericks. Any help will be welcome!

"If you think I am going to take
Your insults, you make a mistake."
That rhet'ric device,
When being precise:
Anapodoton — No, it's not fake!

I'd love a better (funnier!) last line.