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Picture of shufitz
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It seems only yesterday that we were having this discussion:

Kalleh: I came across the word "retromingent", meaning that urine is directed posteriorly, as in women. I wonder if the "mingy" root means "urine" since obviously "retro" means "posterior".
Graham: Retromingent is a fantastic word and I am going to try and use at least three times today.

Would you believe that today I actually spotted this rare bird, spreading figurative wings?
    in China ... the profound difference between Chairman Mao's retromingent Great Leap Forward and what Beijing's new entrepreneurial technocrats have in mind.
    (Russel Sietz, Cambridge, Mass. physicist, in Wall Street Journal)
 
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Except for the fact that he's from Cambridge, it hardly seems that you'd hear the word from a physicist.
 
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Yes, the -mingent is from Latin mingo (minxi, mi(n)ctum) 'to urinate'. It is probably related to the Latin meio and is derived from micturio. The form mingens is the present particple 'pissing'.

[Fixed formatting error.]

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Ceci n'est pas un seing.
 
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I checked all the dictionary definitions of "retromingent," as well as OED's. All Onelook dictionaries only defined it as the urine being directed posteriorly. OED said:

"1646 SIR T. BROWNE Pseud. Ep. 147 Except it be in Retromingents, and such as couple backward. [1727-38 CHAMBERS Cycl., Retromingents, in natural history, a class or division of animals, whose characteristic is, that they stale..backwards.]"

or

"1704 Phil. Trans. XXIV. 1585 If (as in other Creatures that are retromingent also) the Penis here had been fastned to the Ossa Pubis. 1747 Gentl. Mag. 209/1 He is a retromingent animal, and consequently retrogenerative. 1817 KEATINGE Trav. I. 318 The nobler animals, the lion, the elephant, are retromingent. 1874 VAN BUREN Dis. Genit. Org. 39 The patient is usually retromingent."

I just don't see that the author used the word correctly, Being from Cambridge, or not!
 
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<Asa Lovejoy>
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Welll, now, Kalleh, you've really piqued my curiosity! I haven't exactly made a study of female urination, but do human females usually urinate to the rear, or is that just an assumption based on their plumbing's not obviously being directed forward? From what I've seen, it goes pretty much straight down if the woman's standing, so please disabuse me of my error if I'm wrong. If I'm right, the word is not used correctly in your hubby's quoted statement of yours.

Terribly nosy Asa Eek
 
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Well, I'm with you Asa. My preoccupation with the female anatomy hasn't included an analysis of their urinary habits. I did a little research as soon as I saw this post yesterday. I started a reply, but managed to lose it before I posted.

The OED Online offers this definition of retromingent:
    "That urinates backwards. Also as n., an animal which does this."

It's followed by the quotes Kalleh gave. The given etymology is the prefix, retro-, "backwards" or "back," + the adjective, mingent, characterized by the discharge of urine.

The term is primarily a zoological one and applies to animals which direct their urine rearward, such as camels, cats, and raccoons. I'm sure there are more. The word is included in this list of zoological terms from The On-line Medical Dictionary.

The History of Animals written by Aristotle in 350 B.C.E, and translated by D'Arcy Wentworth Thompson is online in nine books. Let me quote from Book II, Part 1.
quote:
Again, with regard to the breasts and the generative organs, animals differ widely from one another and from man. For instance, the breasts of some animals are situated in front, either in the chest or near to it, and there are in such cases two breasts and two teats, as is the case with man and the elephant, as previously stated. For the elephant has two breasts in the region of the axillae; and the female elephant has two breasts insignificant in size and in no way proportionate to the bulk of the entire frame, in fact, so insignificant as to be invisible in a sideways view; the males also have breasts, like the females, exceedingly small. The she-bear has four breasts. Some animals have two breasts, but situated near the thighs, and teats, likewise two in number, as the sheep; others have four teats, as the cow. Some have breasts neither in the chest nor at the thighs, but in the belly, as the dog and pig; and they have a considerable number of breasts or dugs, but not all of equal size. Thus the shepard has four dugs in the belly, the lioness two, and others more. The she-camel, also, has two dugs and four teats, like the cow. Of solid-hooved animals the males have no dugs, excepting in the case of males that take after the mother, which phenomenon is observable in horses.

Of male animals the genitals of some are external, as is the case with man, the horse, and most other creatures; some are internal, as with the dolphin. With those that have the organ externally placed, the organ in some cases is situated in front, as in the cases already mentioned, and of these some have the organ detached, both penis and testicles, as man; others have penis and testicles closely attached to the belly, some more closely, some less; for this organ is not detached in the wild boar nor in the horse.

The penis of the elephant resembles that of the horse; compared with the size of the animal it is disproportionately small; the testicles are not visible, but are concealed inside in the vicinity of the kidneys; and for this reason the male speedily gives over in the act of intercourse. The genitals of the female are situated where the udder is in sheep; when she is in heat, she draws the organ back and exposes it externally, to facilitate the act of intercourse for the male; and the organ opens out to a considerable extent.

With most animals the genitals have the position above assigned; but some animals discharge their urine backwards, as the lynx, the lion, the camel, and the hare. Male animals differ from one another, as has been said, in this particular, but all female animals are retromingent: even the female elephant like other animals, though she has the privy part below the thighs.

In the male organ itself there is a great diversity. For in some cases the organ is composed of flesh and gristle, as in man; in such cases, the fleshy part does not become inflated, but the gristly part is subject to enlargement. In other cases, the organ is composed of fibrous tissue, as with the camel and the deer; in other cases it is bony, as with the fox, the wolf, the marten, and the weasel; for this organ in the weasel has a bone.

When man has arrived at maturity, his upper part is smaller than the lower one, but with all other blooded animals the reverse holds good. By the 'upper' part we mean all extending from the head down to the parts used for excretion of residuum, and by the 'lower' part else. With animals that have feet the hind legs are to be rated as the lower part in our comparison of magnitudes, and with animals devoid of feet, the tail, and the like.

The first sentence says "animals differ widely from one another and from man," showing that he does not include man (Homo sapiens, male and female) with animals (though, of course, they are animals), so when he says "but all female animals are retromingent," he is not talking about the human female.

Now, Aristotle lived a long time ago. He believed a lot of things that have proven to not be true, and I certainly can't vouch for the things he said in this book. But it is interesting reading, to me at least.

Note the delicate way he refers to "the privy part below the thighs," and "the parts used for excretion of residuum."

One of the OED quotes says "Retromingents, in natural history, a class or division of animals, whose characteristic is, that they stale..backwards." One meaning of the verb stale is to urinate, expecially used with domestic animals. As a noun it means urine.

Retromingent refers to principally to animals, that seems clear by the quotes in the OED Online. Let me discuss two of the quotes.

"He is a retromingent animal, and consequently retrogenerative" is from a 1747 issue of Gentl. Mag. (which, I assume, stands for Gentlemen's Magazine). I looked up retrogenerative and found it means retrocopulant, "Copulating backward, or from behind" (Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary) In other words, "doggie style."

"The patient is usually retromingent" is an 1874 in quote by A practical treatise on the surgical diseases of the genito-urinary organs, by William H. Van Buren and Edward L Keyes. That one does seem to apply to people. I'm not sure what it means.

The OED Online gives the literal meaning of retromingent, but no figurative meanings. The quote that Shufitz posted at the beginning is obviously figurative, and I have seen the word used elsewhere (online) in a figurative sense. I think retromingent in this sense is an insult meaning "retrogressive," "backward," or "like an animal."

Tinman
 
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Tinman says, "Note the delicate way he [Aristotle] refers to 'the privy part below the thighs,' and 'the parts used for excretion of residuum.'"
Can anyone tell us whether that "delicacy" is in Aristotle's own phrasing, or rather is just the doing of the translator?

Tinman also quotes from a 1747 issue of Gentl. Mag.: "He is a retromingent animal, and consequently retrogenerative."
"Consequently"? Who says that one follows from the other? Wouldn't the human female be a counter-example? (Yes, retrogeneration is feasible, but it's not the prevailing mode.)
 
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Delicate!? Aristotle!? Probably more to do with D’Arcy Wentworth Thompson [1860-1948] While growing up on the old ranch I noticed that cows and mares are retromingent.

[Putting the s back in Aristotle.]

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Ceci n'est pas un seing.
 
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quote:
I haven't exactly made a study of female urination, but do human females usually urinate to the rear,

Without going into a lot of detail, the answer is yes.
 
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Now, Aristotle lived a long time ago. He believed a lot of things that have proven to not be true, and I certainly can't vouch for the things he said in this book.


That's what you would expect from a guy who didn't believe in experimentation. Also, if you had said this 400 years ago, you would have been burned at the stake.
 
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quote:
if you had said this 400 years ago

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ...


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
quote:
I haven't exactly made a study of female urination, but do human females usually urinate to the rear,

Without going into a lot of detail, the answer is yes.

Awwwww, Kalleh, you're no fun. We want details!

Tinman
 
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quote:
Originally posted by tinman:
quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
quote:
I haven't exactly made a study of female urination, but do human females usually urinate to the rear,

Without going into a lot of detail, the answer is yes.

Awwwww, Kalleh, you're no fun. We want details!

Tinman


I am sure you're only a few clicks and a quick google search away from video evidence.
 
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Wow...I tried to Google it, and you should see some of the sites that came up!

I think the hard part is that we can't, like men, micturate standing up. Therefore, it takes us longer, and of course our bathrooms are always fuller than men's. It is awful going to a nursing conference because there are huge lines for the women, while the men's bathroom is free. I have seen women, in these circumstances, commandeer the men's room and send men to another floor!

However, it looks like this Mr. Edward Young will take care of this with his invention, the Tinkle Safe! Wink Or, women might try the My Sweet Pee, the Papillon, or the Magic Cone. I was surprised to see so many of these devices posted online because I have never seen them in real life. I am sure there are lots more.

I do think the "My Sweet Pee" is rather a clever name!
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh: there are huge lines for the women, while the men's bathroom is free. ...I do think the "My Sweet Pee" is rather a clever name!
Is this then a matter of minding your pees and queues?
 
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I think Papillon is clever, too. All the same - ew.


*******
"Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
~Dalai Lama
 
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quote:
and of course our bathrooms are always fuller than men's.

It's not just physical construction, you know. It's the fact that women do things in their "bathrooms" that men do not. They put on makeup, they talk to others, they fiddle about with their hair. Men do none of these things - indeed, if a man engaged another in conversation in a lavatory it would be regarded as nearly as suspicious as if he started to put on makeup.


Richard English
 
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if a man engaged another in conversation in a lavatory it would be regarded as nearly as suspicious as if he started to put on makeup


Agreed that conversing with a stranger there would be weird, but if you know the other guy, isn't conversation common? Do women observe the same lavatorial distinction?
 
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but if you know the other guy, isn't conversation common? Do women observe the same lavatorial distinction?

From my experience, it is a little different in a work, versus a social situation. In a social situation, yes, one might fiddle a bit with make-up. I don't tend to...but one might. However, most women at work, from my observation, just go in, do their business, and leave. Still, it takes longer to go into a stall, close it & lock it, put on the seat protection paper, sit, etc....than to just stand there, micurate, wash your hands and leave.

Big difference, even if you don't fix your make-up or hair.
 
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Yes - the queues are never for the mirror, they're always for the cubicles.

Perhaps they should br renamed 'queuebicles', lol. *groans at own joke*.
 
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<Asa Lovejoy>
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quote:
Originally posted by zmjezhd:
Yes, the -mingent is from Latin mingo


Maybe this explains why West Virginia has a "yokel" reputation: There's a Mingo County there!
Now, how to explain Charles Johnson's short story, "The Education of Mingo?" It does NOT deal with learning to pee!
 
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Mingo was the name of Fess Parker's Cherokee sidekick on the 1964-1970 TV show, Daniel Boone. Apparently Mingo (Ed Ames) got more fan mail than Daniel Boone (Fess Parker).

Mingo was also an Iroquois tribe, the title of a Chickasaw chief, a type of fish, and more.

Tinman
 
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And then there's Mingo National Wildlife Refuge near Puxico, Missouri.

Tinman
 
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I have been to the Vagina Monologues where the
women took over the men's room because it was
90% women in attendance. But, there was no other
place for the men to go!


quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
Wow...I tried to Google it, and you should see some of the sites that came up!

I think the hard part is that we can't, like men, micturate standing up. Therefore, it takes us longer, and of course our bathrooms are always fuller than men's. It is awful going to a nursing conference because there are huge lines for the women, while the men's bathroom is free. I have seen women, in these circumstances, commandeer the men's room and send men to another floor!

However, it looks like this Mr. Edward Young will take care of this with his invention, the Tinkle Safe! Wink Or, women might try the My Sweet Pee, the Papillon, or the Magic Cone. I was surprised to see so many of these devices posted online because I have never seen them in real life. I am sure there are lots more.

I do think the "My Sweet Pee" is rather a clever name!
 
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<Asa Lovejoy>
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quote:
I do think the "My Sweet Pee" is rather a clever name!


Sure, if you're diabetic.
 
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quote:
I have been to the Vagina Monologues where the
women took over the men's room because it was
90% women in attendance. But, there was no other
place for the men to go!

Welcome, Jack! Big Grin

As a nursing faculty member, with 1 or 2 men at a 400 person conference, we always hijack the mens bathrooms. We ask someone to stand outside and send the men to another floor (usually there are none anyway), while we use that bathroom. Some conference planners think ahead on that and have the signs changed before the conference.
 
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We ask someone to stand outside and send the men to another floor (usually there are none anyway), while we use that bathroom.

(sic)

It must be a very poor conference centre to have only one floor ;-)


Richard English
 
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Touché for my pointing out your "sue" typo? Wink
 
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