I heard a speaker today talk about the Hawthorne and the Panopticon Effect. Of course I had heard of the former, but not the latter. The way he explained it (and I couldn't find his explanation on the Web; something about building the prison on stilts), I didn't understand why the prisoners wouldn't eventually figure out they weren't being watched.

This site I posted doesn't make it clear to me, either. Does anyone know?

Next time I'm in Chicago you must show me where the Western Electric Hawthorne works are (or used to be). I use that story frequently in my management training and it would be good to see where Mayo did his pioneering work.

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I didn't understand why the prisoners wouldn't eventually figure out they weren't being watched.

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According to the article linked to by Kalleh, a major function of the Panopticon was to ensure that prisoners could be observed, without them knowing whether or not they were in fact under surveillance at any particular time. However, it was important that they did know they could be watched at any time.

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Its design ensured that no prisoner could ever see the 'inspector' who conducted surveillance from the privileged central location within the radial configuration. The prisoner could never know when he was being surveilled -- mental uncertainty that in itself would prove to be a crucial instrument of discipline.

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surveilled is a completely new word to me. If it's from surveill, the first page of Google hits seem not to use it as a word but only as an abbreviated directory name; and if it's from surveille the first page are all in French. Anyone seen this word before?

I found it on the OED Online. It's first quote was from 1960:

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1960 Federal Suppl. (U.S.) CLXXXII. 750/1 The plaintiff also stresses that the store as a whole, and the customer exits especially, were closely surveilled.

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It says surveil is a back-formation from surveillance

M-W Online and the AHD (at dictionary.com) also list it.

Tinman

It seems a bit pointless to me. What's wrong with "surveyed"?

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surveilled is a completely new word to me.

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And to me. I looked it up on OneLook, and asked myself the same question as Richard, "What's wrong with 'surveyed'?" I was going to mention it in my earlier post, but forgot.

"What's wrong with 'surveyed'?"

There's just something about back-formations that speakers love. I don't think I'd use surveil myself, but it does seem different in meaning than survey. Most I think would agree that there's a difference between survey as a noun and surveillance.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jheem,

Quote "...Most I think would agree that there's a difference between survey as a noun and surveillance...."

I agree. But a survey (at least in the UK) means an inspection, usually of a property. But surveillance, the act of surveying, seems to be directly derived from the verb and I see no need for a back-formation.

Maybe the difference between surveyed and surveilled is similar to the difference between dishabille and sloppy. They mean approximately the same thing but have varied connotations.

According to the article linked to by Kalleh, a major function of the Panopticon was to ensure that prisoners could be observed, without them knowing whether or not they were in fact under surveillance at any particular time. However, it was important that they did know they could be watched at any time.

arnie, my interpretation was that the prisoners thought they were always being watched, but they were really only being watched randomly. However, from his explanation I couldn't understand why. It had something to do with the way the prison was built. Yet, many prisoners are terribly astute, and I can't think that it really works. The whole story was applied to medical facilities; if they think they are being serveilled, then they will always uphold the standards. I have worked in hospitals where they got all spruced up for their Joint Commission surveys, but then quite soon afterward things went back to normal. This Panoptican Effect should prevent this.

As for "survey," yes we do use it to mean inspection. Yet, "surveil" has a more continuous connotation to it, to me. Yet, I hadn't seen it used as a verb before either. I like it!

I'm with RE and arnie is finding "surveilled" to be an unnecessary and awkward-sounding term. "Back-formation?" Backward, I'd say, but I have heard it used by those wishing to sound smarter than they were.

Quote "...The whole story was applied to medical facilities; if they think they are being serveilled, then they will always uphold the standards..."

Which is, of course, the Hawthorne effect. The performance of the workers in the Hawthorne Works was being monitored (or watched, or surveyed - but not surveilled!) and the fact that they knew that this was happening affected the very performance that was being monitored.

Backward

Ah, well, yes, now I'm liking surveil more and more all the time. I may have to use it in conversation. It's like the verb—despised by the few, but used by more—liaise < liasion.

Interesting thing about surveillance is that it's a noun derived from the present participle (i.e. adjective) of a verb: French surveiller 'to supervise' < sur- (< super) + veiller 'to ensure' (< Latin vigilo 'to watch; be vigilant'). So, the verb preceded the noun, at least originally in French. Survey, on the other hand, comes from an entirely different verb: Anglo-French surveier < Old French so(u)rv(e)eir (present stem sorvey-) < Medieval Latin supervideo 'to look, see'. This is interesting since video means pretty much the same thing, so it's an example of an irregardless kind of formation.

So, in its own way, surveillance is like orientation: a derived noun borrowed into the language when the verb it is derived from was not. Language, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Fill the void with back-formation. I'd say that's why folks want to say surveil rather than survey. Another word in the surveillance camp is surveillant 'one who keeps watch, or 'exercises surveillance (in the OED definition)' (but cf. surveyor as the agentive noun). Other nouns in the survey camp: surveyal, surveyance, and surveying.

As for 'to exercise surveillance' contra surveil, I've noted that many on this board mostly seem to prefer a one-word solution to periphrasis, except in certain cases.

I'm with RE and arnie is finding "surveilled" to be an unnecessary and awkward-sounding term. "Back-formation?"

So Asa, do you see "survey" as taking up that slack then? I sure don't.

Richard, no, the Pantopticon Effect has a very different distinction from the Hawthorne Effect, to me anyway. The prisoners are being surveilled so that they don't escape. The workers are going about their business, but when they are watched, they perform higher. The prisoners are watched so that they don't perform lower. Also, the Pantopticon Effect is based on the way the prison is built so there are technical differences too.

Ah, well, yes, now I'm liking surveil more and more all the time. I may have to use it in conversation.

Now, if I could only convince him to like epicaricacy "more and more all the time."!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

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So Asa, do you see "survey" as taking up that slack then? I sure don't.

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It should, but people don't use it. What's wrong with plain old "observed?"

Quote "...workers are going about their business, but when they are watched, they perform higher..."

In the original experiments that was what happened. However, as the term is usually used in the UK, it simply means that the fact of observation affects the performance of those observed - which may be enhanced or degraded.