There was an interesting article in the Guardian on Saturday.(http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,981412,00.html)
It is about the coining of a new word that atheists and agnostics can use to describe themselves. Bright is to be hijacked in the same way as gay has, as a positive word.

Has anybody else heard bright used in this way or heard of other attempts to make new words - successful or unsuccessful.

LET'S NIP THIS ONE IN THE BUD!

"Bright" for agnostic and atheistic? On one hand it REEKS of smugness as in "We're brighter that you unenlightened religious morons."

On the other, and to me far more importantly, it lumps together two separate and distinct groups. By definition, an atheist believes there is no God. By definition, an agnostic ("a" = "without," "gnost" = "knowledge") believes we cannot know what it on a plane higher than our own. The two are totally different.

As a long time agnostic I freely state that while I very much do believe in the existance of a higher being, I'm totally convinced that anyone who claims to have personal knowledge of what He/She/It is or wants or says is simply deluding him/herself. Faith is one thing, and I would never dream of knocking it in any way, but actual knowledge is entirely another.

For this reason, if for no other, this new meaning of the word "bright" should be actively repulsed.


(A sidenote: While in the service, I had to fight to have the word "Agnostic" put on my dog tags. The first set I received were stamped out by someone who, I'm sure, probably felt they knew what was best for me and had the word "Other" in the appropriate block. What an insult!)

Were I anything other than an atheist I might be tempted to say "God save us from such lunacy".

If the article wasn't so po faced in other respects I'd suspect that someone was taking the piss.

I'd also take exception to his exception to "Catholic Child", "Moslem Child" etc. In an ideal world maybe we could all go through childhood blissfully free of any kind of indoctrination and then in adulthood research every possible set of religious or moral beliefs, rationally consider the pros and cons, and arrive at the belief system of our choice.

But this is the real world and like it or not we are all the products of our cultural conditioning and a child raised by Islamic parents in and Islamic Society is as likely to become a Quaker as a child raised by Quaker parents in a Quaker society is to become a Moslem.
It's possible but the liklihood is remote.

On second thoughts maybe he is taking the piss...

...er...I mean indulging a penchant for post-modern irony.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

Interesting article, Graham. I surely haven't seen it used that way. Since agnostics and atheists have quite different views, it wouldn't be accurate. It would be like calling bisexuals and homosexuals each gay; that isn't done, or is it? Now, I realize I just don't know!

Best not to read The Guardian, I find.

Switching gears here.

"Lesbian" refers specifically to gay women, and "gay" as I understand it, to homosexuals of either gender. Is there a word specifically for homosexual men?

(Or if you think "gay" means men only, then what's the generic term for homosexual, other than that five-syllabe word?)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wordnerd:
Switching gears here.

_"Lesbian"_ refers specifically to gay women, and _"gay"_ as I understand it, to homosexuals of either gender. Is there a word specifically for homosexual men?

Sausage jockey
Arse bandit
Beaver leaver
Chocolate speedway rider
Shirtlifter
Chutney ferret
Fudge packer
Uphill gardener
Brown hatter
Vagina decliner

quote:

---

Originally posted by FatStan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wordnerd:
Switching gears here.

_"Lesbian"_ refers specifically to gay women, and _"gay"_ as I understand it, to homosexuals of either gender. Is there a word specifically for homosexual men?

Sausage jockey
Arse bandit
Beaver leaver
Chocolate speedway rider
Shirtlifter
Chutney ferret
Fudge packer
Uphill gardener
Brown hatter
Vagina decliner

---

Hi Stan, haven't seen you around for a while. A comprehensive (UK) list but perhaps (I hesitate to criticise) not with quite the uplifting - or at least neutral- tone that we were hoping for after the original article under discusssion.

Good to see you back

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

If Lesbian ony refers to homosexual women, what does one call men who live on Lesbos? This is pure poppycock - as opposed to mommycock, perhaps

As for "gay" being given a positive spin by its usurpation by homosexuals, I say balderdash! (Actually, what I REALLY say is stronger, but there may be children present) I WAS gay until the word was inappropriately appropriated by homosexuals, but now am often morose, my cheerful character, my blithe spirit, my very happiness having been impugned by the implication that homosexuals, whether gay or depressed, cheerful or sullen, now own the term. I'd love to return to using homosexual/heterosexual, so I could be gay again!

FatStan, we would like to see more of you! Welcome back! For the record, I haven't heard of any of those terms. But, then, I am a bit of a square!

Okay, guys, remember I am in nursing, a profession with a healthy number of lesbians and gays. I never hear a woman described as gay; only lesbian. Though the dictionary may say "gay" means "homosexual", I think it is used to mean homosexual men.

Certainly most of the references I see are to things like "the gay and lesbian community", which would appear to indicate that "gay" only refers to male homosexuals.

I am glad the discussion has broadened out. Even better that it has descended into comedy words for homosexuals, like so many discussions of my youth. I can't listen to news stories about bandits without sniggering anymore.

I normally like Richard Dawkins...

Tell me, if you were confronted with someone saying "I am a bright", would your first reaction be to ask "What is a bright?", as he suggests, or to ask "a bright what?". The second would be my response.

Ros

There is an organization here in the U.S. called P-FLAG. It is for Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays.

I would say that answers the question of what to call a male or a female homosexual.

Since the recent Supreme Court decision here supporting gay rights, there have been a number of articles. Often, I would read "gay and lesbians", but sometimes I would read the "gay community." I cannot imagine the latter only refers to homosexual men. I think the term is probably not used consistently to mean homosexual men nor homosexuals collectively. The dictionaries, though, are quite clear that it should mean homosexual, period.

I found that urning. means specifically homosexual man.

The word isn't One-look, but a secondary source says it's in Webster's Second International, and adds, "Since the word is obscure, it's also neutral, and thus useful." Another source indicates it was coined by Magnus Hirschfeld, German sexologist, and is not widely used outside of the German literature in the field.

Urning is found in OED Online (accessed by subscription or through your library) defined simply as "homosexual" and gives four citations (1883, 1892, 1896, 1909).

One of the definitions of "uranian" on the OED online is "Homosexual (from the reference to Aphrodite in Plato's Symposium). Cf. URANISM, URNING." It gives four citations for the adjective (1893, 1898, 1914, 1975)and four for the noun (1908, 1909, 1947, 1975).

Tinman

To, Once Again, Cross-Pollinate Threads:

Today a new word I am learning
To describe a particular yearning
Where pairings, you see,
Are quite estrogen free,
Though they themselves still prefer "gay."


Or, in other words, I don't think "urning" is going to hack it. I, for one, don't begrudge homosexuals their co-opting "gay" to identify themselves. For one thing, there are easily a dozen descriptive terms which would have been highly offensive to the rest of us that they could have chosen and, for another, we all have well over a hundred other synonyms for "happy" left over.