Why is that dessert called a trifle? I just made it over the weekend and golly - it was much more than a trifle to make! 3 bowls were dirty and the small mixer and everything! Sheesh!

Hmmm, interesting question. Here is what etymology online says about "trifle," but I can't relate it to the dessert, unless there is something deceptive about that dessert. I don't know much about the dessert. Or, maybe it has something to do with "treating it lightly?"

c.1225, trufle "false or idle tale," later "matter of little importance" (c.1290), from O.Fr. trufle "mockery," dim. of truffe "deception," of uncertain origin. The verb, in the sense of "treat lightly," is first attested 1523.

Trifles are very popular here - the best ones have been made with generous doses of sherry in their mix.

Personally I prefer it without the sherry but then I'm not a great sherry drinker. Have you tried it with good quality beer Richard? From what CW has told me it wasn't a massive hit but I think that it didn't go perfectly in the preparation, which may account for it. Cw also said that she'd found a recipe for a trifle without the jelly but that's a new one on me I must confess.

As I said in an earlier thread just so long as it's not made the way Rachel did in Friends...

Well I followed the instructions (and even read all the tips) on the package . . . and we did eat it and enjoy it. It's just not CHOCOLATE!

Seriously, though, the recipe I found says to soak the sponges (we call it cake or lady's fingers) in sherry and then layer with custard - no mention of jello at all.

But...does anyone know where it gets it's name? Is there something false about it?

Quote "...Have you tried it with good quality beer Richard?..."

No. Beer is used a great deal in cooking (and is better than wine in many instances) but trifle is a sweet dish and needs a sweet drink to supplement it. Young's do make a Christmas Pudding using beer and I had one last Christmas (it was very nice).

But generally beer in stews, steak pie, batter - that's where it seems best.

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But...does anyone know where it gets it's name? Is there something false about it?

thank you, K, for bringing us back to my original question.

At a guess, no-one knows for sure.

Again at a guess, a trifle is a light, sweet dish; something that doesn't (or shouldn't!) weigh heavily on the stomach. A trifle in the other main sense means a bagatelle; something of little substance...

I took a quick look in a dictionary, the OED 1st ed., and noticed this first citation: "a kinde of clouted creame called a foole or trifle in English" [Florio, 1598, Mantiglia] One of the various meanings for trifle is 'an untrustworthy person'. I don't think this takes us any closer to why, but I found it interesting.

I think we have to be on the right lines with it being linked to a light and trivial matter though it has a reasonably varied heritage. I think it is significant that the word is linked to 'truffle' which could also be viewed as a light and sweet article. (You see CW, there is chocolate there). The earliest reference I can find is 1460 when it was defined as 'To toy or play with' but this quickly developed into 'To treat lightly, with lack of seriousness' in 1523. The reference to 'trifle' as a dessert does not arrive until 1781 when it was 'A light confection of sponge-cake or the like served with custard, whipped cream etc. Again, no specific reference to jelly but I've certainly never come across a trifle that didn't have jelly as a main ingredient and I'm not sure I'd like it as much that way.

Richard, I realise that beer isn't an obvious match for trifle but there are certainly some very fruity beers and as you seem to have an astonishing affinity for beer I just wondered if this had led to experimentation

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Richard, I realise that beer isn't an obvious match for trifle but there are certainly some very fruity beers

There's also a strength aspect. Sherry is around 18% abv whereas even a strong beer will only be around 6%. To get the same alcoholic content you'd need thrice the liquid which would probably make the trifle too runny.

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a kinde of clouted creame called a foole or trifle in English

A fool is yet another tradional English sweet dish. It's a kind of fruit puree.

A fool is yet another tradional English sweet dish. It's a kind of fruit puree.

It would seem from the OED citation that a fool and a trifle were synonymous in Elizabethan English. (NB: Florio was born in England and spoke both Italian and English. His great Italian-English dictionary was dedicated to Queen Elizabeth. He is also thought to be the person on whom Shakespeare based the character of Holofernes in his Love's Labours Lost.)

To be honest Richard the alcohol content never crossed my mind because it's not something that really concerns me. I was thinking more of the flavour of the drink and that surely doesn't rely totally on the alcohol content. When I think of some of the really good beers I've tried over the years, some of them have had distinctly fruity flavours that would work very well in the cooking of many dishes, though I admit that trifle still seems a bit odd.

I generally think of beer as something that would enhance the savory parts of the meal. Beer-cheese soup, Beef and Guinness stew (some of my favorite dishes to order at local restaurants), for instance. My husband makes a wonderful beer chicken on the grill that makes a great "having guests over" meal. Read the recipe - there is something delightfully ridiculous about putting a can of beer up the backside of a chicken. Its hilarious to see it done!

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there is something delightfully ridiculous about putting a can of beer up the backside of a chicken.

I agree. It should be good beer - and you never get that from a can.

Since I joined this site I have certainly come to the conclusion that you know your beer Richard. I would agree that cask conditioned is best and always will be but I think we should acknowledge the efforts of the breweries in making canned beer far more palatable than it used to be thanks to the advent of the widget system.

Well, once the beer has been up the backside of a chicken for a while, I doubt the type of beer matters much. However, if you'd want to experiment, I suppose you could empty a can of something, even a cola, and then fill it halfway with a fine cask-conditioned beer for the cooking. Recipes I've seen even suggest that you might want to add some hot sauce or other liquids to season the bird.

Perhaps we'll never know for sure why it is called "trifle," but we are a lot closer. Thanks Doad and jheem! I think you are right, Doad, that it's significant that 'trifle' and 'truffle' are related.

We used to know an English couple who would have us over to dinner and serve trifle. Each time they'd serve it of course we'd always compliment them on the fine dessert, and each time the husband would retort, "Oh, it's just a trifle!" That was much like another couple who would call the duck étouffée he served us a foul canard.

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generally think of beer as something that would enhance the savory parts of the meal. Beer-cheese soup, Beef and Guinness stew (some of my favorite dishes to order at local restaurants), for instance.

When I was young, people used to think beer was great for the hair. Gee, maybe I have found a new use for Budweiser!

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When I was young, people used to think beer was great for the hair. Gee, maybe I have found a new use for Budweiser!

Perhaps the only use.

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Perhaps the only use. Wink

I think that is being unfair; I find it is excellent as a slug trap.

Have I mentioned that there is a Budweiser plant here in Columbus? When Kalleh and Shu were here, I kept suggesting that we take their pic in front of one of the signs . . . but we never even made it to Busch Boulevard because there isn't a bookstore there.

There's also a Dudweiser factory in London - at a place called Mortlake (which translates roughly as "dead water").

It's just down the Thames from Young's brewery and the rumour is that the effluent from Young's farm and stables is recycled as Dudweiser. I disagree, myself, Dudweiser doesn't have enough flavour for that to have been its origins.