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When I was looking up 'Nimby' in my dictionary I was intrigued to come across the word 'niminy-piminy'. I've never come across it before but it sounds so funny I just love it. All my dictionary tells me is that it dates from 1801 but how on earth did anyone arrive at such an odd word?
 
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AHD suggests that it is an alteration of namby-pamby. The reduplication has the effect of intensifying, so someone who is niminy-piminy is an ultra namby-pamby, in my opinion.

Namby-pamby has an interesting origin; according to Dictionary.com the AHD says
quote:
We are being very literary when we call someone a namby-pamby, a word derived from the name of Ambrose Philips, a little-known 18th-century poet whose verse incurred the sharp ridicule of his contemporaries Alexander Pope and Henry Carey. Their ridicule, inspired by political differences and literary rivalry, had little to do with the quality of Philips's poetry. In poking fun at some children's verse written by Philips, Carey used the nickname Namby Pamby: “So the Nurses get by Heart Namby Pamby's Little Rhimes.” Pope then used the name in the 1733 edition of his satirical epic The Dunciad. The first part of Carey's coinage came from Amby, or Ambrose. Pamby repeated the sound and form but added the initial of Philips's name. Such a process of repetition is called reduplication. After being popularized by Pope, namby-pamby went on to be used generally for people or things that are insipid, sentimental, or weak.


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That is very interesting and would tie in with my main dictionary which dates 'niminy-piminy' from 1801 and defines it as 'lacking in force or spirit'. Another definition I found was 'affectedly fine or delicate'. It's quite a tongue twister to say someone is a niminy-piminy, namby-pamby but is also beautifully descriptive. I've heard of 'namby-pamby' before, though I think it is rather out of fashion now but I've never come across 'niminy-piminy' before. I'm not sure why they'd need another word for the same thing unless it is, as you suggest, to intensify the insult. The rhyming nature of it makes it sound rather childish to me and I wonder if this is the context in which it was largely used.
 
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I always thought the alternate phrase was mamby-pamby . . . starting with an M. Is there a seperate entry for that, or have we just bastardized it through the years?


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quote:
The rhyming nature of it makes it sound rather childish to me and I wonder if this is the context in which it was largely used
Precisely! Carey and Pope were extracting the urine from Philips's poetry for children. Remember Andy Pandy? Or are you too young? There are definitely overtones of childishness in both "namby-pamby" and "niminy-piminy".

CW - I can't say I've ever heard of "mamby-pamby" but I can see how some people might mishear the original and repeat it incorrectly.

For what it's worth, a Google search on "mamby-pamby" gives about 6,830 hits, whereas one for "namby-pamby" gives about 96,200.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: arnie,


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quote:
Originally posted by arnie: according to Dictionary.com the AHD says ...
Ah, but arnie, you should have gone to the more authoritative source! Big Grin
 
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Shu,

More authoritative? Confused

That source doesn't even give any attempt at an etymology! Wink

I see it does also refer to namby-pamby lower down, though, and quotes the same article as I did. Cool

It was good fun reading those posts again. I wonder what happened to Duncan Howell; it was useful having a Canadian on board to keep the other North Americans in line regarding proper English! Smile


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OK, etymologically speaking, Wink I couldn't find Pope's work but here is Carey's original poem. I did particularly like bit highlighted in red. Big Grin If you want explanatory footnotes, you can find them at this site, my source for the text.
    Namby-Pamby: or, A Panegyric on the New Versification
    by Henry Carey (ca. 1687-1743)

    Nauty Pauty Jack-a-Dandy / Stole a Piece of Sugar-Candy,
    From the Grocer's Shoppy-shop, / And away did hoppy-hop.


    All ye Poets of the Age! / All ye Witlings of the Stage!
    Learn your Jingles to reform! / Crop your Numbers and Conform:
    Let your little Verses flow / Gently, Sweetly, Row by Row:
    Let the Verse the Subject fit; / Little Subject, Little Wit.
    Namby-Pamby is your Guide; / Albion's Joy, Hibernia''s Pride.
    Namby-Pamby Pilly-piss, / Rhimy pim'd on Missy-Miss;
    Tartaretta Tartaree, / From the Navel to the Knee;
    That her Father's Gracy-Grace / Might give him a Placy-Place.
    He no longer writes of Mammy / Andromache, and her Lammy,
    Hanging panging, at the Breast / Of a Matron most distrest.
    Now the venal Poet sings / Baby Clouts, and Baby Things;
    Baby Dolls, and Baby Houses, / Little Misses, Little Spouses;
    Little Play-Things, little Toys, / Little Girls, and little Boys.
    As an Actor does his Part, / So the Nurses get by Heart
    Namby Pamby's Little Rhimes, / Little Jingle, Little Chimes,
    To repeat to Little Miss, / Piddling Ponds of Pissy-Piss;
    Cacking-packing like a Lady, / Or Bye-bying in the Crady.
    Namby Pamby ne'er will die / While the Nurse sings Lullabye.
    Namby Pamby's doubly mild, / Once a Man, and twice a Child;
    To his Hanging-Sleeves restor'd; / Now he foots it like a Lord;
    Now he pumps his little Wits; / Sh---ing Writes and Writing Sh-ts, / All by little tiny Bits.
    Now methinks I hear him say, / Boys and Girls come out to Play! / Moon do's shine as bright as Day.
    Now my Namby Pamby's found / Sitting on the Friar's Ground,
    Picking Silver, Picking Gold, / Namby Pamby's
    never old.
    Bally-Cally they begin, / Namby Pamby still keeps in.
    Namby Pamby is no Clown, / London-Bridge is broken down:
    Now he courts the gay Ladee, / Dancing o'er the Lady-Lee.
    Now he sings of Lick-spit Lyar / Burning in the Brimstone Fire;
    Lyar, Lyar! Lick-spit, lick, / Turn about the Candlestick!

    Now he sings of Jacky Horner, / Sitting in the Chimney-Corner,
    Eating of a Christmas-Pie, / Putting in his Thumb,
    Oh, fie!
    Putting in, Oh, fie! his Thumb, / Pulling out, Oh, strange! a Plumb.
    Now he plays at Stee, Staw, Stud, / Sticking Apples in the Mud:
    When 'tis turn'd to Stee, Staw, Stire, / Then he sticks 'em in the Mire.
    Now he acts the Grenadier, / Calling for a Pot of Beer;
    Where's his Money? He's forgot: / Get him gone, a Drunken Sot.

    Now on Cock-horse does he ride; / And anon on Timber stride,
    See-and-Saw, and Sacch'ry down, / London is a gallant Town!
    Now he gathers Riches in, / Thicker, faster, Pin by Pin:
    Pins a-piece to see his Show, / Boys and Girls flock Row by Row;
    From their Cloaths the Pins they take, / Risque a Whipping for his sake;
    From their Frocks the Pins they pull, / To fill Namby's Cushion full.
    So much Wit at such an Age, / Does a Genius great presage,
    Second Childhood gone and past, / Shou'd he prove a Man at last!
    What must second Manhood be, / In a Child so bright as he?
    Guard him, ye poetic Powers! / Watch his Minutes, watch his Hours:
    Let your Tuneful Nine inspire him; / Let poetic Fury fire him:
    Let the Poets, one and all, / To his Genius Victims fall.
 
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And of course, when I think of 'niminy piminy,' I always think of the first line of a double dactyl, such as:

Niminy Piminy
Simon E.* Winchester
Writes of a murder a-
mong those who penned

Marvelous OED,
Logomaniacally.
Linguiphiles', everywhere,
Ears does he bend.

(mine from March 5, 2003)
 
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quote:
Originally posted by arnie:Remember Andy Pandy? Or are you too young?


Sadly I do remember Andy Pandy and many others of the pre-computer generated age, such as Bill and Ben, Hectors House, Trumpton, Joe 90 etc. etc. I always thought of these as really good quality kids programmes, certainly better than the rubbish available now and I think it is significant that when Thunderbirds was repeated a couple of years ago it became phenomenally popular with the youth of this country.
 
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There are some really fine children's shows over here, now, too, although most of what kids are watching is lousy. Sesame Street is still pretty good, and there is a newer show called "Between the Lions" that is truly excellent. I also like "Bear in the Big Blue House" . . . but you probably don't have access to many of these shows in the UK. I actually recommend "the Lions" and "Bear" to families at the library. Both have excellent puppetry and music. Bear is mostly about character issues and Lions is mostly about phonics and early literacy.


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"Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
~Dalai Lama
 
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