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Picture of Kalleh
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Is the the word "foreign" negative to you? At my job we have to call the foreign-educated nurse a "nurse who is educated outside of the U.S." That terminology seems unwieldy and wordy to me. I can understand not saying "foreign nurse"...but I see nothing wrong with "foreign-educated nurse." Do you see "foreign-educated nurse" as politically incorrect or insensitive? When I have asked for an explanation, no one seems to know.
 
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Picture of jerry thomas
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Neutral use of the word "foreign" is foreign to many Americans. For example, the American who, on arrival at Heathrow, saw a doorway labelled BRITISH SUBJECTS and another labelled FOREIGNERS, and asked, "But where do WE go?"

Kalleh, How about introducing ENFA ....... Educated Nurse From Abroad ... ¿No?
 
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Picture of Kalleh
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Interesting, Jerry. My first reaction was "of course not because neither Mexico nor Canada is 'abroad'. I always thought of "abroad" as meaning "overseas". When I looked in dictionary.com, I see that some definitions are "overseas", but others say "out of one's country" or "in a foreign country". What do the rest of you think of "abroad"?
 
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Picture of jerry thomas
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After a number of my students at the women's college in Taiwan had claimed that their short-term goal was "to go to abroad for higher education," I asked them to find "broad" in the Chinese / English dictionaries that each of them always carried.

Some shrieked, some giggled; all blushed.

Most of them had been studying English for seven or eight years, but I was the first "foreign teacher" for many of them. I wore the title with pride.
 
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I have a hard time thinking of Canada as a foreign country here. I know it is, but since I cross this friendly boarder frequently, it is a concept that is difficult for me to grasp.

As far as the word "foreign" goes, I see it as a friendly word (no negative conotation to it). But I suppose there are those who would disagree with that.
 
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Picture of arnie
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Foreign does, in my view, have some negative connotations. However, whether it is worth avoiding in an attempt to avoid giving offence is doubtful. Abroad, to me, has less negative overtones. In fact, it has some glamour.

I think of abroad as being synonymous with overseas, but, since I live on an island, I have to go overseas to go abroad anyway. I don't think of Scotland or Wales as abroad, and they are definitely not foreign.
 
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<Asa Lovejoy>
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Before Japanese and German cars became ubiquitous here in the USA, most people referred to them as foreign cars. Signs at repair facilities often stated, "Foreign car repairs." My reaction to such a sign was that if the vehicle in question were foreign to the repair personnel, they'd best not advertise repairs to them! When I operated my own small automobile repair facility some years back, I advertised that I repaired small domestic and imported cars. So, foreign had a different import to me Smile
 
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Picture of Kalleh
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Even if there is a negative connotation to the word "foreign", doesn't "foreign-educated nurse" sound okay, though? I agree that "abroad" sounds more friendly, but to me it implies "across the ocean".

Morgan, I do see Canada as a "foreign" country; how is it different from the U.K., for example? Do you see Mexico as "foreign"?
 
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quote:
Morgan, I do see Canada as a "foreign" country; how is it different from the U.K., for example? Do you see Mexico as "foreign"?

I guess Canada isn't foreign to me because I am there so often to visit family. But since I have never been to any other country, anything other than the U.S. and Canada are foreign to me!
 
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Picture of Richard English
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There is an apocryphal tale of an Englishman who was directed to a "foreigners" gate at a port. He said, with some vigour, "...I'm not a foreigner, I'm British...!"

Which (if we are honest) is the way that most of us who are fortunate enough to live in these sceptred isles believe , deep down in our sub-conscious!

Richard English
 
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I suppose foreign-educated might, to one of the right (or should that be wrong) mindset, suggest that a foreign education is not as good as a "native" (for want of a better word) education...

I have heard it used in such a way, mostly by people of my grandparents' generation, and mostly concerning their Indian (subcontinent, not native American) educated doctors.

Has anyone asked the nurses in question how they would like to be referred to? Wink
 
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Picture of Graham Nice
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Sadly, foreign does seem to have negative connotations. Therefore, to distance myself who uniformly slag off all foreign students at my college. I find myself saying 'students from abroad'.

We have almost no political correctness in this country, but apparently the new name for EFL (English as a foreign language) is EAL, with the A standing for alternative.
 
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Picture of C J Strolin
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Might the negativity stem from the fact that it is possible to pretty much buy yourself the title of Doctor from the type of foreign school known as a "diploma mill" (great phrase!) most of which are located outside U.S. borders?


Consider this situation. You need delicate brain surgery and have three doctors to choose from:

Doctor "A" who finished in the middle of his class at Oxford,
Doctor "B" who graduated with honors at a state university, or
Doctor "C" whose diploma certifies that he graduated #1 of his class at the Haiti Community College for Medical Studies and Shopping Cart Repair.

Doctors "A" and "C" are both foreign educated. It's all a matter of delving passed whatever first impression the term "foreign" may give you.
 
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We've talked about whether foreign carries a negative connotation. Would it be more clear that foreigner is negative?

CJ, this bit of Odgen Nash probably pre-dates the diploma mills (yes, a great term there Big Grin)
quote:
Foreigners are people somewhere else,
Natives are people at home;
If the place you’re at is your habitat,
You’re a foreigner, say in Rome.
But the scales of Justice balance true,
And tit leads into tat,
So the man who’s at home when he stays in Rome
Is abroad when he’s where you’re at.

When we leave the limits of the land in which
Our birth certificates sat us,
It does not mean just a change of scene,
But also a change of status.
The Frenchman with his fetching beard,
The Scot with his kilt and sporran,
One moment he may a native be,
And the next may find him foreign.

There’s many a difference quickly found
Between the different races,
But the only essential differential
Is living different places.
Yet such is the pride of prideful man,
From Austrians to Australians,
That wherever he is, he regards as his,
And the natives there, as aliens.

Oh, I’ll be friends if you’ll be friends,
The foreigner tells the native,
And we’ll work together for our common ends
Like a preposition and a dative.
If our common ends seem mostly mine,
Why not, you ignorant foreigner?
And the native replies contrariwise;
And hence, my dears, the coroner.

So mind your manners when a native, please,
And doubly when you visit
And between us all a rapport may fall
Ecstatically exquisite.
One simple thought, if you have it pat,
Will eliminate the coroner:
You may be a native in your habitat,
But to foreigners you’re just a foreigner.
 
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Picture of arnie
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quote:
the new name for EFL (English as a foreign language) is EAL, with the A standing for alternative.
I always though the A stood for additional!
 
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...don't know where it fits in chronologically, but for a while we saw references to "ESL," S standing for "Second."
 
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<Asa Lovejoy>
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...don't know where it fits in chronologically, but for a while we saw references to
"ESL," S standing for "Second."
=================================================
Some years ago I volunteered as a tutor in an ESL program. I soon discovered the term to be incorrect, as most of the Eastern Europeans with whom I worked already spoke two, three, or more languages - just not English!



BTW, Wordnerd, many thanks for the Ogden Nash poem!
 
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quote:
Originally posted by C J Strolin:
Doctor "A" who finished in the middle of his class at Oxford,



Oxford didn't do medicine the last time I looked.

Wink
 
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Then there is the question of what constitutes a foreign car:

Is a Honda that's built in Ohio a foreign car?

Is a Pontiac that is built in Canada a domestic car?
 
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