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Hello everyone..&c Login/Join
 
Junior Member
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Seems like it's a good week for introducing oneself. I've been lurking too and reckon it's time to emerge from the closet. Greetings to all!


Here's a question that came up when I was talking with my stepdaughter about Jane Austen, and she asked what '&c' meant. Well, of course it means et cetera, but when did we start spelling it the modern way?

Incidentally we were also talking about apostrophes and decided that Jane Austen's spelling 'ca'n't' was much more logical than the modern way. I seem to recall she also uses 'do'n't'. But when did the first apostrophe disappear? I think Lewis Carroll spells both words as above.

Chielamangus
 
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Hello Chielamangus. Good name, where's it from? (And do we call you "he" or "she"?)
 
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Picture of BobHale
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My goodness. More new members. Welcome, welcome and thrice welcome. Big Grin

And an opening post that asks a Lewis Carroll question that I couldn't answer off the top of my head.
My various editions vary - some having a "corrected" version of the spelling and some not.
However I've checked my facsimile editions which are as close to definitive source as I have and it seems that while he did indeed spell "can't" as "ca'n't" he spelled "don't" as we do - "don't".


You know for all the times I've read it I've never noticed that before.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.
 
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Picture of Kalleh
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Chielamangus, I have welcomed you in another thread....and yet another U.K.'er! I am so excited!

I can only say that I have never seen "&c", so I am wondering if it could be a trans-pondian difference (as haberdasher says).
 
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Well, yes, I'm a he.

The name is from Burns: 'There's a chiel amang us takin' notes'.

After I wrote the above post I thought surely Lewis Carroll writes 'sha'n't' as well? Strangely this type of apostrophe use was one of the first things I noticed about the Alice books when I read them as a child. I suppose I'd only just learnt the modern spelling so it looked odd to me, and part of the charm.

I'm glad we have a Carroll fan on the board. Can anyone answer a question for me? I know Charles Dodgson was very fond of mathematical and word games, but is there any evidence that he played chess with any skill? Of course chess is the theme of the Looking -Glass book, but it is in the form of a chess problem which is very different from a chess game. And I for one can't figure out what moves are being made at various points in the book.

As you may guess I'm a big chess fan myself, as well as a Lewis Carroll fan. Incidentally there is a whole sub-branch of chess problems called 'Fairy Chess', which utilises imaginary pieces with all kinds of odd moves, and also sets tasks for the solver which have no relation to ordinary chess. I mention it because I think Carroll would have loved it (it wasn't around when he was writing).

Many thanks for the welcomes.

Chielamangus
 
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Picture of BobHale
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quote:
Originally posted by Chielamangus:

I'm glad we have a Carroll fan on the board. Can anyone answer a question for me? I know Charles Dodgson was very fond of mathematical and word games, but is there any evidence that he played chess with any skill? .
.

Chielamangus


This essay suggest that he was a chess player although I don't know how we would find out now if he played with any skill.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Chielamangus:
The name is from Burns: 'There's a chiel amang us takin' notes'.


Thanks. Wassa cheil then?
 
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I recall that there was a science fiction story from the Fifties or Sixties based on a chess game, and that in the foreword the author took note of the Looking Glass game, dismissed it as a rather poor one, and offered this one as being of higher quality play.

Unfortunately memory fails me at this point and I can't produce any additional details as to author, certainly not title or even the magazine it appeared in.

Just thought I'd muddy the waters a bit.

Is anybody else's recollection clearer and/or more detailed?
 
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Welcome Chielamangus! Would you be Chiel for short?

Ros
 
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Pauld. A 'chiel' is 'a child' as pronounced in a hardcore Scots accent!

haberdasher. I think the book you are thinking of is 'The Glass Bead Game' by Hesse.

And can someone please tell me how to use the Quote facility please? I am not computer-savvy in any sense of the word, so please make it idiot-proof!

Smile

Tadpole
 
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quote:
And can someone please tell me how to use the Quote facility please?


Two ways. The first, and easiest, way is to click the icon for "Reply with Quote" - the inverted commas at the top of each message. This quotes the whole of the message to which you are replying at the top of your message.

The other way is to highlight and copy just the text that you want to quote. Then click the "Post Reply" button. In the "Post a Reply" window click the "Quote" button under "Instant UBBCode™". The code will be placed in the reply window. Click between the two tags and paste in the text you copied.

Note: I've substituted curly brackets for square ones in the example below, to prevent it displaying as a quote.

{QUOTE}Paste your text here.{/QUOTE}
 
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Tadpole, thank you. So erudite!
 
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Picture of Hic et ubique
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quote:
Originally posted by Chielamangus:
The name is from Burns: 'There's a chiel amang us takin' notes'. Many thanks for the welcomes.

I'd thought your name came from a different poem, which I've finally found. Big Grin It was longer than I'd recalled; please forgive. A belated but heartfelt welcome to you!

All in the groves of dragon-fungus / Lives the mysterious Chickamungus.
The natives who inhabit there / Have never yet found out his lair;
And if by chance they did, no doubt / The Chickamungus would be out.
For he is seldom found at home; / He likes to rove, he likes to roam.
He never sleeps but what he snores, / He never barks but what he roars,
He never creeps but what he walks, / He never climbs but what he stalks,
He never trots but what he hobbles, / He never stands but what he wobbles,
He never runs but what he skims, / He never files but what he swims,
At tom-tom time he romps and roves / Among the odorous dragon-groves.
He lives on half-grown formicoots / And other sorts of roots and shoots.
He has been seen at rest among / His multitudinivorous young;
And travellers returning late / Have heard him crying for his mate.
His tracks have been identified, / Straying a bit from side to side,
Across the desert plains of Quunce. / A native girl observed him once,
But could not say what she had seen, / So unobservant had she been.
Her evidence is inconclusive, / And so the beast remains elusive.
A naturalist who found his den / Was never after seen again.
Thus we must leave the Chickamungus / At large amidst the dragon-fungus.

(James Reeves)
 
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