I met this woman today whose first name was "Iris." I told her about "iris" being one of the only names that is a body part (cross-threading again!).

Well, she told me about her last name, which is more interesting! Winkelhake means "builder of fences" in German and "seat of the pants are ripped" in Dutch.

I love the latter, and I doubt that we have a name for it. Besides "fencebuilder," I don't think we have a word for the former either...though I could be wrong.

Completely fabricated account of how Winkelhake has those two meanings.

A German fenc ebuilder named Hans Winkelhake was taking a roadtrip through western Europe. He came across the farm of a young Dutchman. The Dutchman asked Hans what he did for a living. "I'm a fence builder", replied Hans, proud of his craft.

The Dutchman needed a new fence to keep his livestock from escaping, so he commissioned Hans on the spot. Hans made speedy work, and three days later the fence was done. The Dutchman was suscipious, and asked Hans if the fence was truly strong enough to keep the animals in. Hans said "Of course it is", and threw his weight against it, not moving it an inch.

"Ah", said the Dutchman, "But will it keep robbers out?" Hans, anxious to demonstrate the solidity of his fence, proceded to climb it. As he got to the top, the fence was more difficult to climb, and right at the top, he fell forward, catching the seat of his pants on the spike, ripping them open.

The Dutchman thought this was the funniest thing, and called over his friends. They saw Hans laying on the ground with the seat of his pants ripped. "Winkelhake", the Dutchman told them.

I was bored. : )

It's not a single word, but there is a hyphenated phrase "raggety-arsed" (or "raggity-arsed") which has the "with the seat of his pants ripped" meaning. It is usually applied to the archetypal 11-year-old boy, who may not literally have a tear in his trousers, but is the sort who would.

Winkelhake means "builder of fences" in German and "seat of the pants are ripped" in Dutch.

Weird. Winkelhaken is German for composing stick, a printing term, i.e., the thing that printers put type in one at a time upsidedown and backwards to compose type. It's a compound word: Winkel 'corner, nook, angle' and Haken 'hook, crook, catch, hitch'. As far as I know it doesn't have anything to do with fences, their construction, or the folks who make a livelihood making them. There's a bunch of nouns and verbs in German for fences and fencing, but none of them look remotely like that.

Winkel and haak both have similar meanings in Dutch, though Dutch winkel has specialized to 'corner store, boutique; storage room'. but I can't say for sure if the compound Winkel-haak means 'raggety-arsed' in Dutch. So, I bow out to the others in this thread. Dutch haak 'hook' is also related to hoek 'angle, corner'. (This remind me of a winery over in Napa county called Inglenook, but that's just my imagination running away with itself.)

I told her about "iris" being one of the only names that is a body part

What about Dick, Jock, John Thomas, Johnson, Peter (double for St Peter O'Toole), etc.?

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What about Dick, Jock, John Thomas, Johnson, Peter (double for St Peter O'Toole), etc.?

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Shame on you, jheem! I'm am sure Kalleh's mind is on higher things!

I've found an English word, winkle-hawk / winkle-hole, that is a loan from the Dutch winkel-haak 'carpenter's square' (an L-shaped do-hicky), but also a rectangular rent in a piece of cloth. (This reminds me of the Cologne-area dialect term for such a thing: Fünef (lit.) 'five', from its V-shape and the Roman numeral V for 5.)

Here's the Dutch Wikipedia article on it. Seems it's also a kind of machine shop hook.

Strange! Both of her definitions are wrong. I would think she'd know the meaning of her own name!

Unfortunately, this was just a passing acquaintance, and I doubt I will see her again.

At school we had a brief spell of calling everyone "Tony" on the basis that we all owned that name.

Pointing:

Toe
Knee
Chest
Nut (head)

Your name is therefore Tony Chestnut

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Originally posted by jheem:
...(double for St Peter O'Toole), etc.?

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Saint Peter O'Toole?? Sure, he was a fine actor but jeeze...


(Just kidding, of course. I assume that was a typo for Sir Peter O'Toole though I don't really keep a close eye on the ins and outs of British knighthood.)

I assume that was a typo for Sir Peter O'Toole though I don't really keep a close eye on the ins and outs of British knighthood.

Sorry, I'm always mixing up my saints, my British knights, and my movie stars. It's St Lorcán Ó Thuathail (anglicized Laurence O'Toole) [1128-80], patron saint of Dublin / Baile Átha Cliath, that I was thinking of. James Joyce made some kind of reference to a St Peter O'Toole having a doubly membered name somewhere, or perhaps I just imagined the thing after a bit too much Welsh Rarebit.

No name for fence builder, Kalleh? How about "murifex?" Whaddaya mean it's not in the dictionary? It jolly well OUGHT to be! So let's start a dictionary of words that ought to be, but aren't!

How about "murifex?"

More of a wall-builder that. How about saepifex?

Well, I couldn't find either in onelook. Are they English words?

In the process I found an interesting word, though: "spaewife," meaning female fortune teller. I wonder if there is a word for a male fortune teller.

saepifex and murifex are Latin for "fence builder" and "wall builder." I remembered the wrong word - jheem is correct. (So whaddaya want from a dumb lawnmower mechanic who hasn't cracked a Latin text in forty years?)

So whaddaya want from a dumb lawnmower mechanic who hasn't cracked a Latin text in forty years?

I think it's pretty damned good! Now how do you say lawnmower mechanic in Latin?

Uhhh, don't know about "mechanic," but how about ovis for lawnmower, or maybe bovis?

Yes, Asa, I'm with jheem!

Just wondering though, how would I find out that they are Latin words? I tried putting them into Google, and then putting each of them with Latin into Google, but still came up with nothing. Is there a Latin site that would have Latin words? Or, is it just impossible to get the answer from the Web?

Just wondering though, how would I find out that they are Latin words?

Well, they're not really recorded words in Latin, they're compounds made following Latin morphology out of Latin roots: murum '(city) wall' (think intramural) and sæ'pes 'fence, hedge; enclosure'. Here are a couple of dictionaries (in print) that you could use: Cassell's or Lewis & Short (also online under tools along with Liddell & Scott).

As for -fex, it's a well-known suffix (from the same root as the verb facio 'to make') that means 'maker of X' (i.e., Xfex): cf. artifex 'artist, artificer', carnifex 'hangman, executioner', pontifex 'pontiff' (a Roman religious office, now one of the Pope's titles). From the words ars, artis, 'art', carno, carnis, 'flesh, meat' (a little gallows humor), and pons, pontis, 'bridge' (though the last is not accepted without controversy).

how about ovis for lawnmower, or maybe bovis

Asa's words for lawnmower are the "standard" ones in Latin: sheep or ox.

(facio'to make')

Jheem, shouldn't the infinitive be facere? Facio, facias, facit, etc, following the regular o-s-t-mus-tis-nt conjugational endings? Boy, the brain is rusty on this Latin stuff!

Asa senex

shouldn't the infinitive be facere?

You're right, asa, but the first person present indicative is the citation form (lemma) in dictionaries, followed by the infinitve, the first person present perfect indicative, and the past participle, (e.g., facio, facere, feci, factum). The gloss in English is usually given in the infinitive. Theoretically, all you need are these four forms to conjugate any (kinda) regular verb in Latin; that's why a dictionary isn't enough, you need a grammar, too, with all the morphology and syntax. Other languages have different conventions. Not to worry, your brain ain't that rusty ...