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I'm on a roll here now with the letter 'N'! Like 'niminy-piminy', the word 'nincompoop' is another one I find quite funny (what a sad life I lead). From what I can gather it dates from 1676 but can anyone tell me how we arrived at this word? | ||
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Modern lexicographers seem to agree on "origin unknown". The Word Detective has an article here. Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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I found that article very interesting. It certainly sounds like a nonsense word but it seems to me that there must have been some reason for its first introduction and in that respect I find Dr Samuel Johnsons theory of its Latin root to be quite persuasive. It seems to me to be quite possible that earlier versions such as 'ninkumpoop' were merely phonetic spellings of the word by an ill-educated population. I appreciate I'm making a bit of a leap here but if the origin is unknown, what else can you do but speculate? | |||
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Nincompoop is the UK's favorite sounding word, according to this article. The article says the word probably came from the Latin phrase non compos mentis, meaning "not of sound mind." This article says "it possibly sprang from the name 'Nicholas' or 'Nicodemus', a reference to the Pharisee who naively questioned Christ." Which is it? Listen to what Marina Orlova of HotForWords has to say about it. Here's the list of the UK's 20 favorite words (from the first link). The nation's top 20 words: 1. Nincompoop 2. Love 3. Mum 4. Discombobulated 5. Excellent 6. Happy 7. Squishy 8. Fabulous 9. Cool 10. Onomatopoeia 11. Weekend 12. Incandescent 13. Wicked 14. Lovely 15. Lush 16. Peace 17. Cosy 18. Bed 19. Freedom 20. Kiss | |||
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This probably says more about the survey than it does about words. The Daily Mail doesn't tell us what the survey methodology was, but any survey that suggests that "discombobulated" and "onomatopoeia" are in the top ten most popular English words - even if that popularity refers only to the word's sound, as is implied in the article. I would suggest that a fair number of this board's members would not have known the precise meaning of "discombobulated" and "onomatopoeia" off the top of their heads, and to suggest that a random sample would know all the words cited, well enough to decide on their favourites, beggars belief. Richard English | |||
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They should have included Kalleh in the poll. I'll bet she could have got "epicaricacy" in the top 20. "No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson. | |||
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Ah. I see, I hadn't checked the link. It was the Mail. That explains everything. Doubtless next week they'll be running articles on the evils of lexicography. "No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson. | |||
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Member |
I'm guessing, but I don't think the question was in the form of "which of these 20 words is your favourite-sounding", but rather, "What's yer fave word, sound-wise, mate". That being said, nincompoop, possibly, but onomatopoeia and discombobulate, not likely at all. | |||
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Oh, I disagree, Valentine. I can completely see onomatopoeia and discombobulate; I love the way they sound, too. But love? And cool? And bed? To be honest, besides nincompoop, onomatopoeia and discombobulate, these are the only others I'd even consider: squishy, incandescent, wicked and maybe lush and kiss. I didn't get it at all. | |||
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I'm surprised "brilliant" isn't on that list! Wordmatic | |||
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Interesting, but not surprising, that all of the reaction to my post has been to the list of words, rather than to the purported origins of the word, nincompoop. | |||
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The first reply made by me:
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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Yes, that was a reply to Doad's original post, not to mine. | |||
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Well, what's your reaction to the origin, Tinman? Thoughts? You just posted links, but didn't provide your own conclusions. Many of us here are relative amateurs at analyzing etymology and origins of words. In fact, I recently commented here about the problems with using sites for verification and asked how to use primary sources for that. I had always thought the origin was from the Latin non compos mentis, as in the Mail Online site or as discussed in Word Detective. The online OED says that the origin is "unknown," though it says it "...may show a form derived from a name; compare French nicodeme simple or naive person (See Nicodemite)." Their etymology, in this OED version, does not mention non compos mentis, though Quinion says earlier versions did. Of course, Quinion has another theory. Ciardi's Browser's Dictionary called the OED's assumption that the word was a fanciful formation a "clerk's guess" (don't tell John Simpson!), and he said it came from the Dutch phrase nicht om poep, meaning "the female relative of a fool." However, Quinion dismisses this, saying "Such a stretched derivation from a foreign language is typical of folk etymology that turns up a lot." He goes on to say this: In the end, Quinion sees the Nicodemus origin as "intriguing." My conclusion, based on all of this, would probably be that nincompoop derives from "Nicodemus", but I could be swayed otherwise (with evidence, of course!).This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh, | |||
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Your post took us no further. Why should we comment? To repeat, again, Modern lexicographers seem to agree on "origin unknown". Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. | |||
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I'm sorry, arnie, I misunderstood your September 8 post. When you said "The first reply made by me," I thought you were were refuting my post by saying that you had replied to my post and hadn't mentioned the list. I don't know what you mean by "Your post took us no further." One of the links in my post (Marina Orlova of HotForWords) did say that nincompoop probably came from nicodème + poop (poep). That hadn't been mentioned previously. | |||
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So, Tinman, I posted my conclusions based on your links and some others. What are your thoughts? It's certainly an interesting question and most likely not one that's easily answered. | |||
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<Asa Lovejoy> |
If I remember correctly, Shakespeare used "ninny." Is it related, you think? | ||
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It could be. Here's what the OED Online says about nincompoop.
So it seems like nincompoop may have derived from nicodème + poop in its earlier uses and ninny poop in its later uses. Starting with the OED's etymology, I looked up noddypoop (1598), which led me to nod (1534), noddypoll (a1529), niddipol (1582), noddypeak (1598), hoddypeak (1500), nodcock (1577), nodgecock (1566), niddicock (1586), nannicock (1600) noodle (1720), noddle (1705), hoddy-noddy (1600), and so on. The nod part refers to the head. The OED calls -cock in these words a "hyporcoristic suffix," which is an endearing suffix. There seems to be no shortage of words meaning fool or idiot. Even nidiot (1533) and nidget (a 1579) are in the OED! I also looked up ninny (1593), origin unknown, but it may have derived from innocent (1548). That led me to ninnyhammer (1592) and hammer-headed (1552). But, in the end, no one knows the origin of nincompoop for sure. Arnie is right, the origin is uncertain.This message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman, | |||
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Wow...it looks like you had fun with the OED, Tinman! Isn't it amazing when you look up one word, how you keep finding more and more. I think, as I said above, that nincompoop derives from Nicodemus. However, there sure isn't a certain answer on it. | |||
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